Wednesday, April 9, 2008

5th Period Question - pgs 117-147

Compare and contrast Julia and Winston. How do you think their similarities or differences will affect their relationship and the rest of the plot?

61 comments:

Tylerg! said...

Jullia seems to be more openley rebellious and blatant in her attempts to challenge the system. Whreas Winston is more concealed and cautious to be discovered and wants to come up with a master plan to overthrow Big Brother. Also Jullia does things wrong just to break the rules, while Winston does things wrong to see why they are rules and because he wants a change.

ZachH said...

I think that Winston is truly intrested in falling in love with Julia. I think Julia is only intrested in rebelling. I think Winston is also intrested in rebelling, but he has a definite cause for rebelling, while Julia is just rebelling for the sake of rebelling.

mattf said...

Well, the simulation was a little creepy, and completely unfair. The guys were targeted way more than the girls.

Tylerg! said...

oh so sexist, but that was probably how it was.

jordanh said...

I believe that Winston and Julia have very similar belief systmes, but use different means of expression. Both beleive that Big Brother and his government is ridiculous and should be overthrown, but their ways of rebelling against the party differ. Winston is satisfied with following the rules and venting his frustration in his journal, whereas Julia breaks the rules with blodness, slyness, and absolute determination.

morgant said...

Julia is a young person rebelling against the party. I find this interesting. It is so different. Julia, when not being watched, is so violently against the party, but Winston is more subtle about it. Does anyone else get this feeling?

jordanh said...

tylerg- the sexism that the girls used represents the oppression of the proles becuase there isn't much sexism in the 1984 society.

mitchs said...

jordanh- Do you think they planned the sexism? Or do you think the girls just did it naturally?

Tylerg! said...

No Jordanh I know I was just noticing how 3 or 4 guys got out and the guys started with 6 less points than thegirls, but that is not on topic that much.

mitchl. said...

Well I think that julia is more open with rebelling, and isn't really afraid to share her beliefs. Meanwhile, Winston is more secluded about his feelings, and he is kind of afraid to tell others that he wants to rebel. I think that later on in the book, I think that these personalities will collide, and Julia will want to openly rebel, while Winston only wants to fly under the radar and secretly rebel.

morgant said...

It is so weird that Julia and Winston end up together. They are such a different couple, but I think that is what makes it kind of interesting.

morganw said...

I believe that overall Winston is much more intelligent and really has a cause for things. Julia cares only for the rebellion and not for the ensuing change. She just wants to have the satisfaction of doing something that isn't allowed where as Winston wants change and will go through the rebellion in order to get that change.

As far as their relationship and the rest of the plot I think that Julia will eventually be won over to winston's side and see the cause that drives him. Either that or she'll be vaporized. I don't think that Julia will want to join Winston's rebellion, but I do think that she'll be willing to help him and O'Brian over throw Big Brother.

mattw said...

I think this 'sexism' is because there are twice as many girls as boys.

jordanh said...

Do you guys Winston's way of sliding under the radar is better than Julia's way, or are they equal?

maddieh said...

I just want to say that I think everyone did a really great job with the simulation today. I know it could have been really lame and cheesy but I think that it went pretty good. Thanks everyone for just kind of going along with it. I hope that it helped you guys kind of understand the characters in 1984 and why they acted the way they do.

Laurenc said...

I think that Winston is much more interested in a relationship then Julia is. They both want to break the rules but Julia more so then Winston. I still think Winston, in the back of his mind is afraid of the party and B.B. but Julia is completely ready to rebel but still being careful about it.

mattw said...

I'm curious; is London in 1984 in the current U.S.? Because one of Ingsoc's enemies is Eurasia, which is like Europe and asia.

jordanh said...

Mattw- I agree because which one is easier to favor, the larger group o the samller group- the larger group of course, because otherwise, the "government" would be overpowered. I think that this is the flaw in Big Brother's regime- he underestimates the proles.

ashleyf said...

Julia is the next step of hatred towards the party. Winston is beginning to start questioning Big Brother, while Julia is past the sadness of feeling like there is a life better than this, and on to finding ways to get around the system. Such as finding places that are un-watched and trying to talk to Winston in a crowd without showing emotion towards him

mitchs said...

jordanh- I think that Julia flies more under the radar than Winston. She is much more involved in party life than him and much more intense in the Two Minutes Hate and other activities. She is better about keeping her rebellion a secret, so I think that she flies under the radar more so than Winston, who does his best to hide his rebellion, but makes mistakes.

Tylerg! said...

jordanh, in terms of sliding under the radar, Winston is much better, because his way is catious and thoughtful, while Jullia is impulsive and obvious just to show that she rebels.

morgant said...

Maddieh- I actually really enjoyed it. When I was asked out into the hall, I was kind of worried, but I realized that I was going to be asked to do something under cover. Haha. It was really fun.

mattw said...

A prediction I have is that Julia will eventually be caught and tortured, and Winston will have to choose between saving her, joining her, or forgeetting her.

morganw said...

Mitchs - I know this quesiton was for Jordan, but whatever. I think both. It's natural for girls to put more faith in girls and vice versa. Also, they needed some way to represent the opression of various peoples and the different treatments of the workers and party members.

morganw said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
maddieh said...

Mitch- We did do the sexism on purpose. And since we were girls we thought it would make more sense if we were fairer to the girls. I know it was kind of odd since there were so many more girls which should have been like the proles because of numbers but we have more in common with the girls considering we are girls. Plus, we knew we would get a greater reaction with the sexism against the boys.

DawnielleN said...

Just to add this really quick,

does anyone else think that the whole "I love you Note" came really fast?

They hadn't really talked.

mattf said...

Julia on the outside appears to be the ideal party member. However, on the inside, she seems to be very rebellious. Winston seems to be an average person that knows that he will be vaporized. He is not as rebellious as Julia, and Julia seems to pull him in deeper. I think that Winston truly loves Julia, while Julia loves to challenge the system. I think this means that Julia will move on and Winston will love Julia.

Tylerg! said...

mitchs, Winston works at the community center and works a steady job and he participates in the two minute hates. Although he doesn't throw things at the screen, he seems that he is more cautious and can slide under the radar better.

mattw said...

jordan, I just meant there are more girls to CALL on... but sure, whatever....

morgant said...

I also think with all the differences between Julia and Winston, it may contribute new ideas to rebelling against the party. So, I think it could be a very good thing.

katyj said...

Winston and Julia have very different ideas on how to rebel.Winston feels rebellious, but does not act on his rebellious feelings, where as Julia feels rebellious and does rebel, but also builds herself an air tight alibi by becoming involved with many of the parties innner workings.
But Julia and Winston have very similar ideas on the futility of rebellion. Winston feels that no one person can make a difference and do anything worth while towards the destruction of the party. Julia feels that no individual can can make any difference in the world, but feels that since no one person makes a difference, if two people rebel, the party won't notice for awhile.

morganw said...

Mattw - I think that the US is a part of Oceania but Airstrip One, where London is, is actually in Great Britian and London is actually london.

jordanh said...

MattW- No, I think that Oceania occupies London, Eurasia occupies eastern Europe and parts of Russia, and Eastasia occupies Asia and the middle east. Any other opinions?

Laurenc said...

dawnielle - I think the note was brought on just to get Winston's attention and not a true message

mitchl. said...

Jordan, I think that the way Julia and Winston have very different versions of flying under the radar. Julia actually does things like passing notes, while Winston kind of just stays to himself.

Tylerg! said...

maddieh, it is not only sexism in the game, now the boys don't get extra points on the quiz so it affects the boys grades and that is just unfair. I don't want to make a big deal of it but it affects more than just a reaction it affects our school work.

morgant said...

Dawnielle- I definitely agree. I really wasn't expecting that. I definitely think it came a little bit fast.

mitchs said...

Right, but Julia does a better job than him of participating in party life and concealing her rebellion. Winston tries to conceal his rebellion, but he can't because he doesn't always know how. That's why I think she is better at sliding under the radar.

maddieh said...

There is a map of the world in 1984. Here is the link.

http://strangemaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/1984_fictious_world_map.png

melissaz said...

I think that Julia has a much more free soul and is more ready to rebell. Winston is not quite to the rebelling extent as Julia is. Winston has just started to actually think and test the limits; Julia has already pressed the limits probably to the highest extent possiable. I think that Julia will start to free the inner soul of Winston. They both do have the drive to be different and notice the need to challenge the Party, Julia is just more advanced. I also think Julia is even better at hiding her emmotions then Wintson. We are not actually in her head, but she is a very active part of society and it looked upon as a strong Party member, and yet still manages to have a secret life. Winston struggles to keep his cool having a basic job in the Party. Julia has commited many "crimes", and manages to stay completely under the radar. Simply, I find that Julia is at a much farther point than Winston.

ZachH said...

Dawniellen-
I do think it came fast. Other than making eye contact here and there, they hadn't really met.

morganw said...

Dawnielle, yeah, I agree, it makes me think that she just wanted to have sex with him.

Tylerg! said...

Well mitchs, for the most part this is true, but she is more obvious with her rebellion and has rebelled many more times so she has a biiger chance of getting caught. She also breaks the biggest rules.

katyj said...

tylerg-- i understand where you are coming from in terms of feeling cheated by the bais of the "leaders" today, but in terms of it affecting your grade, the quizzes arent that hard so i dont think that your team not winning the challenge well cause your grade much detriment.

maddieh said...

Oh well I meant that more as it is like 1 point extra credit on the quiz. I think we actually might not do that because the girls got 2 peices of chocolate where the boys only got 1. I think we can kinda use that as their reward instead. I think we were just more worried that we wouldn't have enough incentive to make everyone play along.

mitchs said...

tylerg- No, she is not more obvious with her rebellion. She doesn't go wandering around in the Proles quarters. She plans and calculates everything she does. She breaks the same rules that Winston does.

lesliel said...

FOR the sexism thing. It doesn't effect your school work because the group that did a better job jon passing on the message won. not the points necessaraly.

Ryad said...

Like I said in the circle today I think that Winston started out being just the next guy on Julia's list of guys. It's her way of challenging the system. But because she has stayed with him I think that he has become more than a "tool" for her. Winston, I think loves her because she is rebelling. It started out for both of them as a way to rebel but turned into love. Both had different motivations with different results.

ParkerH said...

I didn't know if the inner circle people had to blog, but I will just in case.

First, Leslie I have to disagree. The sexism thing in the beginning hurt the guys in the end because we had fewer numbers, and less mind power, and also we couldn't hide anything. What I mean by that is, we didn't have sufficient people to block the texting person, or something like that. I don't we couldn't hide our facial expressions, that wasn't my point.

As for Julia and Winston, how different are they? Sometimes, the differences between people help to create that love, and any differences they have don't hurt their relationship. If anything, it helps. They are very similar though. They both are rebelling, they are active in the Party in order to hide how they really feel, they love each other, etc etc. I actually think that this relationship makes some sense.

kristinah said...

I think that winston and julia are alot alike in the feelings that they both want to rebel against the party but I think that julia does not love winston, she just is rebelling in the way she usually does. But I think that winston loves her like he loved katherine.
I think that eventually she will realize that she does love him for how he is and for what they share in the rebellion against the party. I think it will be like clarice and montag that something will later happen to julia that will be drastic.

mitchs said...

Julia is more petty in her rebellion than Winston is. She doesn't want to bring about a huge change in the way her life is. She just wants to defy the party in any way she can. Winston on the other hand wants to defy the party too, but he also wants to try to destroy the party. He wants to try to completely overthrow the party and put a new government in place.

Also, Julia is better at hiding her rebellion by involving herself heavily in party activities. She hides her thoughts well and arouses no suspicion because her decisions are well thought out and calculated. Winston can not make himself seem interested in party activities and is often very impulsive. These qualities make him more suspicious.

Julia lives in the moment, and does not really think of the future. Winston is very fatalistic, he is always thinking that the Thought Police will catch him and kill him, ever since he began to write the diary.

I think that Winston's inability to hide his thoughtcrime and emotions will lead to both of them being captured.

hannahl said...

I think that the major difference between Julia and Winston is that Julia wants to be carefree and rebellious whereas Winston wants to find out why things are the way they are and fight to change the world in which he loves. It isn't what they do but why they do it that makes them different. They are similar because they don't want the life they have, they want love and meaning and happiness. They understand the beauty of nature and the integral emotions of the human being. I think that they will continue to have a relationship becasue in their world, there is really no room to have petty fights and "break-up". In 1984, if you find love, you will most likely only find it once. Plus, they can only last so long before they are found out, so there is really no time for them to have a problem in their relationship.

mattw said...

This sounds sorta cliche, but I think Julia is using Winston to break the rules. She may start to love him, but I definitely think that was NOT her original motive become a couple with Winston. Whether or not Winston realizes this really depends on if he really 'loves' her, or if he only claims to love just for the SAKE of loving someone.

maddisonm said...

Julia vs. Winston
Julia wants to breaks the rules, Winston wants to rebel
To break the rules is more free form and do as you will as long as you do not get caught, and the rebel is more constructive and with a purpose
Julia just wants to live her life how she wants to live her life, Winston tries not to get caught with his thoughts and such, but he has a huge interest in finding out why things are the way they are
Winston is falling in love with Julia; Julia is in love with sex
Both have courage, Julia seems to show hers a little more
Winston is more behind the scenes with his actions against the government (diary)
Both seem to have more knowledge then the average person of their society
Both are in some way going against the Party
Both want to spend time with each other
Both seem to have potential in creating an uprising against the Party
Julia seems more suspicious
Julia seems that she could get away with more
Winston seems like he could get caught easier

beckyg said...

I think it has to be easy in a way, but hard in another. They both are against the party and really want to rebel. This would probably bring them together because they are of a minority of people. However, it would be hard because they have very different personalities. Julia doesn't care at all about politics etc. when Winston cares a lot. Julia has no clue about life before the revolution, Winston lived his childhood before it. These seperations in age and personality have to make it very hard to keep their relationship going even if it is a very superficial relationship and it is just for rebelion.

Selenam said...

Winston is more concerned about the effect of the Party on the past and the people, while Julia is just rebelling for the sake of rebelling. Winston is a bit more cautious, while Julia is more daring. The relationship might hold while they are working for a common gaol, but if they ever stop working towards the destruction of the Party, then their relationship will fail.

rsabey said...

I think Julia is young. Young in more than just being only 26 but inmature in her ideas and concepts of life. I feel like the government is taking away good human nature and replacing it with animalistic tendencies. For exsample, both Julia and Winston are so pro-sex which shows that they have lost other instincts and that is all they know how to turn to.
Winston is falling for julia. I think that in the end love will be detremental and end in pain and possibly death.

Rachel_F said...

Well, comparing and contrasting Winston and Julia is comparing a Tiger to a Lion. Though both of them find that there relationship is a strike against the party. Julia is far stronger in her feelings as Winston simply is in it to rebel against the party. They are both unique and both are intelligent enough to question the beliefs of the party. While Winston feels that he is dead, Julia belifs she provides life. This will lead to a somewhat questionable relationship as neither of them truelly understands love, but only what they think it was.

macm said...

For me, the biggest difference between Julia and Winston is that Julia will say anything and do anything to fly under the radar while Winston is not willing to compromise on his morals. Julia strikes me as a devious girl, she has to be as a sexual rebel in this society. I just wonder how this will affect their relationship. Would she pull an underhanded trick that would make trouble for Winston? Winston , however, is shy, intellectual and naive when it comes to women and their cunning ways. Also, Winston seems to have his full focus on finding out more information about the brotherhood and such. All of his energy is directed at finding answers that will help bring the end of the party. That and sex. It makes me think that in a choice between Julia (sex) and bringing down Big Brother, he would choose the latter. Their difference of opinion and ambition will ultimately lead to the demise of their realtionships or their lives. Or both. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

alexf said...

Hey guys, well I wasn't here on Thursday or Friday...and I’ll come to one of the presenters to make up my quiz, but here is my response to the question. (It's late because I wasn't there).

Well first, this sounds a lot like my quiz question!! Ha-ha, sorry!

Ok, well Julia seems to only want to be a rebel inside. She doesn't mind at all if it affects anyone else except her. This kind of sounds conceited... She doesn't believe ANYTHING that ANYONE says and she is very self-confident.

Winston, on the other hand, seems to want to change society. He is willing to sacrifice himself is he can help others. This is a good attribute. Compared to Julia, however, he seems naïve. He is willing to believe the rumors that he has heard.

They both want to rebel, it's just the way they go about it is quite different.

I think that this may end up breaking up their relationship. Because they have such different beliefs, I don't know if they'll be able to stand one another long enough.