A lot of people posted questions/comments about Montag's hands doing someting for him. What do you think is the symbolism behind that?
I think it's saying that people are either good or bad and if they're good, then their hands do good things for them, like Montag's when he takes the books, or if you're bad, then your hands do bad things like Macbeth's killing duncan.
Does anyone else think that our world will ever turn into Montag's society? I don't remember if it was Mrs. Bowle's or Mrs. Phelp's who had the children, but will future generations act like her, just shipping their kids off to school in order to get rid of them? It scares me to think of living in a world where no one cares for anyone else, whether it's their spouse or their children.
Brianc- thats an interesting point. my question is do you think that people are solidly good or bad? If theyre are many layers to people, then do thier hands do both good and bad things?
Brian C.- I think that Montag's hands doing things for him symbolizes that he isn't actually doing things with his own will, he just kind of compulsivly doing things and can't really control it because the way he was brainwashed by the government.
brianc- the whole hand thing is a really interestion point. I am not sure if in this book all of the actions his hands do are good or bad, however, it does seem as if they started the whole things with him going crazy about books and wanting to know more. The hand seemed to have started someting good that will result in a lot of change like when Macbeth used his hand to do different actions.
I agree with you on the hands doing good and bad but it's interestin g how they blame it on the hands instead of thier brain or something. Good Macbeth connection. I had that connection too.
To answer the question in the middle, i think that Mildred turned in Montag because she was the only one who knew about him. Also, she seemed sketchy about the whole book idea. I dont think that she was ok with the idea of having books in her house...
I think that it is very intersting that people blame their hands for doing something bad but when they do something good then THEY did it, not their hands.
I think that Mildred turned him in because he was either scaring her or she had had enough of him breaking laws and trying to think while she lived with her "family".
I think Mildred probably turned him in because she is so stuck on doing what is the right thing for the society that her relationships dont stop her from turning people in
maddie- i have been reading the book and it makes me really scared becuase so many of the things said make me think of our society and i dont want the world to turn into this
maddief-i think that in the future our society will send the children away. if you think about it, even in todays world if children are a problwm they are sent to boarding school, or camp. i think that our society is already stooping to that level.
I think that Mildred turned Montag in because she couldn't handle the stress. She knew that their house would be burned and that she was going to be dragged down with Montag, so she sacrificed him to save her life. I never thought that she would turn him in though; even though their relationship was slightly sour, I didn't think that she would betray him.
MaddieF- I think that there society has plunged to far into the ideas of equality and no books that there is now way the society will ever be like Montag's.
Everyone- there can be no way that mildred turned montag in. They live together so if thier house was burned then where would they bo. Also, Mildred was not the only one that knew about the books. Her two friends were over when Montag started reading the book so it was most likely them that went and told the firemen.
maddief- i think that society will not become exactly like that, but that it will be detached like Liap said... also, a question was brought up about the woman knowing poetry: does anyone think this is weird??
I think Mildred turned Montag in. From the beginning, she was really overwhelmed and distraut because her husband was going against the government and she knew there would be consiquences. I think maybe she thought since she's the one who turned him in, the consequences would be less severe, at least on her part.
Nilec...maybe the she started crying because she has never read a book before and it something that is emotional to her. She has heard about books being bad all her life so she thinks that it could not happen to her.
lia- I agree it would make most sense that Mildred turned him in because it doesn't really seem like she cares for him very much. And also she was against the whole having books thing from the start.
nilec - I think that the woman was crying about Montag reading a poem because she was scared of books. Everybody is scared of getting there house burned down and that happens by having books. I think that the book has just been really assosiated with bad things, thats why the lady cried.
Javon- who knows what will happen years and years from now. I sure hope that nothing will ever happen like that, but it does seem as if a lot of people don't really care about kids anymore. I have parents that love me a ton so it is easy for me to pick out the people that do not have loving parents because of thier actions.
about the mildred thing- Mildred hated hte idea becuase it was against the rules and she diidnt want to get caoght, but if she was to turn him in, she would be turning herself in, becuase they couldn't tell whose books they are
I agree about Mrs. Phelps, and that the book was the reason why she started crying. I think that she started crying because she was brought up that way, not reading books.
nilec- i think that she cried and knew about it because everyone in the society knew books- like rachels said in the circle, it's how you're brought up: everyone has probably read stuff, and knows a little bit about it... anyone elses thoughts?
I think that the way they treat children in this society is kind of a red flag because when children are treated like that it really reflects the lack of caring people that live in the society
Hello? Why would Mildred turn it in when it means that her house and her "family" would be burnt. She cares too much about herself to do something like that and to ruin her whole house.
nilec-i think that the woman begans to cry because she somehow connects to the poetry. i think it might be because she has children and the poetry reminds her of the fact that their children dont love her, and she doesnt like her children
All the signs point to Mildred. Who else would have had more of a motive to turn Montag in? She didn't like the idea of having books or reading them, she just wanted to be "happy". She was probably willing to have the walls burned down just to feel safe and not get in trouble and to be safe from being "corrupted" by books.
pheobe i don't think that people are either com[letely good or completely bad because i think everyone has some some good/bad in them. and also i think that people can change their goodness/badness level like Macbeth.
Josed - I think that everybody treats there children like something entirely different then they do know. I think that they see them as annoying people that they have to put up with several times a month. I think that they only have children because they understand that people need to have children to continue generations of people. They don't have kids because they want to like people do know.
Lia, I agree, I think that future generations will be more disattached. But where will that lead to? How long will people simply be disattached? I think that generations drift away from relationships until friendships and love have dwindled away into nothingness. I seriously don't want for that to happen, but how can we change the way that society is heading?
jose- i think that these woman are upset because they were brought up hating books. They do not know what they are all about. If your neighbors were shooting guns in their backyard you would be outraged...its the same idea.
Josed-I think that Mrs. Phelps started to cry because she noticed how she was acting and noticed how bad it was but she didn't want to know so she left. That might also be a reason why she could've been the one who reported Montag, because she didn't want to know how bad she was.
Elisabeth, I think because it's the last straw, and she doesn't want to be burnt by someone else: she wants to hurt herself. She's afraid of Beatty hurting her, but not about a pill binge
Do you think that since parents just send thier kids off, that may be part of the reason that the kids in this society are so violent? Do the kids have depression like Mildred does?
liz- that's a good point. I didn't think that mildred turned him in, but i wasn't quite sure... what other reasons could there be against midred turning him in??
I agree with pheobe. Today's society is already shipping away their kids. When they're young, kids are sent to daycare because the parents have to work and can't watch them. They get older and they go to school 5 out of 7 days a week. Then they go to college and they either live there or they come back home on the weekends and are busy with their homework and working in general.
i think that mildred turned montag in because we se that she puts the books out side. this indicates that she knew the books were going to be burned and was hoping that if she removed the books from the house, then maybe the firemen would only burn the books and not the house.
Jose- I think that these two ladies acted the way that any two ladies would act today if confronted with such an illegal act, like what Rachel said in the converesation
aaronw-I think you do have to post questions on the reading because it's part of the homework. You can ask Mrs Smith when she comes back, or you can try E-Mailing her tonight.
Elisabeth c- That is a good point, Mildrec does really care about her TV and things like that but I also think that she was pressured into it in a way because she is so enthralled in society that she would do anything for the society just to live up to standards that were set for her even if it meant losing something that she cares about
Nile, the lady might be crying, because the poem talks about war, and her husband is away, so she makes a personal connection and she gets filled with sadness for the first time.
In the fishbowl it was brought up that mothers sometime send their kids to daycare all day and they say that they are too busy. then the usually are always doing stuff fro themselves not other people like getting their nails done or going shopping for themselves.
louiseb- I agree. If children don't get loved by their parents then they won't love as they grow up, which is wy they are so violent and cold. Like the ladies who got married three times and they weren't even sad about the war and the fact that their husbands could die. Also, they think that "it always happens to someone else", but everyone is someone else.
I think that it could have been Mildred. I think that she saw that Montag could have brought her down with him if they had been discovered with books in their house. She saw that the only way to ensure her well being was to turn in her husband.
Johnb- I think that Mildred did turn him in. She thought that since she was the one to turn him in, they wouldn't burn down her house. Someone would just take Montag away.
Jose- I do not think that she wants to hurt herself. She has a bad memory or is addicted to pills which is why she takes so many. No one wants to purposely hurt themselves unless they have life problems or somethings. She does not want to give up all of her possesions or anything like that.
Alyssa, that's a good question! I think that maybe the kids have so much school, that all they want to do is be violent. It's like how Clarisse said that it was all funnels.
AlyssaS- I do believe that the kids are depressed, as well as Mildred. OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! That is something Bradbury predicted! Kids ARE depressed, sometimes more so than adults. Suicide rates for teens are way up.
megan- that is a good point, but don't they always burn the houses no matter what. It is much more likely that the ladies that came over went and told on him instead.
Alyssa s- I think that the fact that kids are just dumped somewhere sometimes does influence their violent behavior. At daycares and things there is only one person for lots of kids to look up to and so they start to look up to other kids so if there is a violent kid there is a pretty good chance that a lot of other kids will become violent also
How does Faber compare to Clarisse? If they were to meet and discuss the future, I think that Faber would want one with books, and Clarisse would want one where people think. How do these futures coincide? Books encourage you to think, but could you have one future without the other?
ooo.. for people in Cornils Honors Hhistory: amyw made a point about how marriages are like tissues being thrown away... CONNECTION!!!!! EXPENDABILITY!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
amyw- i think that marrige isnt taken for granted like it is in this book. The celebrity parall isnt very true becuase we only hear aboutt the people who divorce
alexd - I think that the parents were to blame for the kids being so violent. They know that their parents don't love them so they are very hostile as kids and if they do grow up they will probably be just like their parents towards their kids.
I think it may be a little bit of both. Maybe the kids act the way they are because of their parents then the parent don't like it so they send them away.
alyssas- i dont think that the children of the society are depressed, but rather emotionaly dead. they've grown up in this society, and they dont know anything different. that could also be why they are so violent. they dont feel remporse for killing and violence.
john- good comparison to the whole thing with the kids being depressed and stuff. That is actually kind of true. We have school shootings, and kids drive around drunk and kill other people.
Amy- I noticed that too. People kind of see mariages as expendable and they don't take time to build relationships, they just marry to meet the social standards, not because it makes them happy.
But elisabeth, she does have life problems. Usually, when you're addicted to sleeping pills, you're depressed. I've got a family member who's got problems like Mildred, so I really think she can have problems
Amy- Yes it's really sad. Not only are marriages being thrown away but there really aren't any strong relationships at all in this book. Marriages aren't for love, parents don't love their children and just send them away. The whole idea of a family has disappeared.
Alyssa- I don't think that the kids are in a depression because they never really knew their parents so they couldn't miss them. I think they are always killing each other and are so violent is because they were never taught any differently.
So, what will happen when this crazed generation of kids grow up and are responsible for protecting and providing and keeping society safe. Is society even safe now? (in the book, not in real life)
in the fishbowl they talked about how we keep getting upgrades or getting more t.v.'s. If this keeps happening we are going to end up watching more and more t.v. and eventually we might end like the poeple in the book.
Mark g- I think that the fact that perents dont pay any attention to their kids helps make the kids emotionless because they havent been shown any emotion.
Does anyone think that when kids grow up they wont be able to love and get married and things because of the lack of emotion as a child?
josed- If you can't sleep and take sleeping pills for a long time, you can't get to sleep without them. You don't neccesarily have to be depressed, just dependant.
I think that it is amazing that Ray Bradbury was able to predict the future so well. There are so many parallels that can be drawn between this book and our society today.
In this book marriages seem really expendable. One of Mildred's friends had 2 husbands that died and shes in her third marriage and still isn't going to be sad if her next husband dies.
maddief- i think that the difference between faber and clarisse is that clarisse is not afraid to be a free thinker, where as faber wants to be a free thinker, but is to scared to. I think that there desires for the future are similar, but clarisse is more focused on happiness, and faber is more focused on knowledge.
I was listening to the inner cirlce awhile ago and they were talking about how having a TV in every room is scary. Well, my parents won't get more then 2 TVs, one for the family and one for my mom, and reading F451 makes me kind-of see why. Does anyone else notice stuff like that or is it just me?
Lia, it's not just about the pills: it's obvious Mildred has problems because she's plugged in to a screen. That's how my family member is like, so that's why I think Mildred has problems
I agree with what everyone's saying in the inner discussion; all that we want to do is upgrade. I mean, one day the hottest item is an Ipod, and then a month later it's an Ipod video. People go around plugged in, wanting to have the newest item. At my church when we go up to winter and summer camps, we're not allowed to listen to music because it disconnects us from everyone else. Mildred plugs herself into her Seashell and never talks to Montag.
I agree with what Elizabeth just said, sometimes when I babysit, the parent hands me a video and tells me to watch it with them. They might be learning from the T.V., but they're not learning how to act socially. All they do is sit there staring at a screen with a glazed expression on their faces. Gee, that's real healthy for your kids.
louiseb- i think that the children will get married because it is the expectation of the society, not because the love each other, or want to get married.
to add to what you said if the younger generation in the book is violent and they are not learning any differently the generation after them is going to be even worse and it's going to keep on going on like that untill they like wipe out the population.
phoebef - I agree that that Clarisse isn't afraid to be free thinking. I don't even know if Clarisse knew that what she was doing was wrong. She may have had books and she definatly would have known those were wrong but just thinking differently wasn't against any laws or anything like that.
Louise- I think that the kids will grow up and get married but I don't think they will be happy. I think that since the way the kids were raised, as being sent off and seeing the relationship between there parents, they won't be happy because like their parents, they will just try to meet the standards to be normal.
jose- that is really steriotypical. Just because she takes sleeping pills does not mean that she id depresses. Some people need them. It is just that they end up over-using them. Also, why would she want to hrt herself?
Stef- I noticed that too! I think they burned the buildings, even though they're fire proof, just to publicize what will happen if anyone had books. I think it's a way to scare other people who have books into getting rid of them.
How does Beatty know all these quotes? It's almost like he has his own library at home or even at the firestation. Mabye, if Montag gets away, he should go search Beatty's house and try to expose him.
The whole Baby Einstein thing just freaks me out. How can a 1 or 2 year old get anything out of a video like that??? It's just scary, plunking your kid down in front of a video to make them "smart" so you can also get them out of your hair. It's stupid.
Luke, I think that marriage is for life too. It's a partnership between two people, but it's one whose basis is love. The people in Montag's society don't love each other. They marry for necessity, or frankly, for some fun, not because they want to spend their life with that person.
Its been proven that plugging kid's in to the tv like that causes autism. Because it's passive entertainment on a screen where the tv tells you what to do, it stunts development. Also, this destroys social relationships, since they only know about the TV
alyssa- that is a really good point. I have parents that love eacchother a ton and there are 5 of us kids. Watching them makes me want to have a loving relatinship when I am older, but with other kids who have divorced parents they grow up with the idea of not having a loving relationship later. A lot of things depend on what you are surrounded with.
Amen, Amy! Seriously, sitting a toddler in front of an emotionless object and having it shove facts in their faces is not healthy. Kids need interactive learning with people, not technology.
There doesn't seem to be any love in this book. People aren't even really friends! Notice how Mildred talks about the ladies coming over and never talks about her friends coming over. There are pretty much no relationships to speak of in this book.
Jose-I think the houses just have a fire-proof barrier so that, once the firemen burn throug the barrier, then that house just burns itself. That's why they flood the house with karosene, so the fire has something to burn while it melts throught the barrier.
that's a really interesting point. That's a possibility that beatie has books because he always seems to be saying some quote and maybe he thought that if he was a fireman noone would suspect him of having books.
I agree with Amy.We can learn a lot using technology, we are doing it right now. They just need to find a better balance between technology and reality.
I don't think that technology will ever go away because there are so many goo things that techology can be used for but there are also so many bad things, people just have to indevidually go the extra mile to avoid the bad stuff.
Johnb- I think love would be defined as a man and a woman who have known each other for a year or more, or as what families are required to feel for each other.
elisabethc- i dont think that kids whos parents are divorced dont desire a loving relationship. I think that somethimes they desire it even more. i think its is different in montags society because they dont have any examples to gooff of. in todays society, even if your parents are divorced, you can see examples from other peoples parents and other people.
kristen yes but what about if he was ever discovered? wouldn't that be the end of the firemen's regime if someone with books was in power? or would the world not care?
I think that Nicole brought up a really good point in the discussion about how we all listen to music and watch T.V. in hopes of drowning things out. I know that when i had a really bad day or im upset about something i listen to music to get my mind off of it, it kind of seems like we have technology to escape our own thoughts
DO you think that this is the reason that mildred and other people watch so much T.V. because they are so unhappy with their own lives that they have to drown them out?
Did anyone else notice that they went to burn Montags house but he hid the books in the bush outside!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!tricky Montag. Maybe he suspected they were going to burn his house.
Luke I agree because he couldn't have got those quotes from the "walls". I think he's really hypocritical, it's like he's a fire captain and he burns people's house for having books but he probably does to.
John, I think that the definition of love is caring about that person. It's a feeling that you get that's almost a possessive jealousy, like you don't want anyone else around that person. The only person I've seen that truly feels that way is Clarisse's family. Everyone else just ships their kids off to school, but Clarisse's family cared enough about her to raise her themselves.
Aaron-No, I don't think that's why they fireproofed the homes. Remember, they thought that the first fireman was Benjamin Franklin who was responsible for burning books with contrary ideas, so why would they fireproof the homes so the firemen wouldn't have to put out fires if they neve did that in the first place, at least, not that they know of.
jose was bringing this circle questions with the inner circle: SHE IS NOT DEPRESSED!!! SHE IS ONLY DEPENDENT, WHICH IS STILL NOT GOOD!!! jus thought i'd make it clear... :)
I agree with what Nicole said; I think that if it is quiet, you think about everything because nothing is occupying your mind, buut when listening to music or watching TV., your thoughts are drowned out.
johnb-i think that in the books excepted society love exists only in theory. i think that clarisse knows what love is and is sharing the knowledge with montag. i think that mildred and montag deceive themselves into thinking that the love each other, much like montag thinks he is happy at the beggining of the book.
ya that makes sense that he would hid eit in the wall/ventilator because he knows what they burn and don't burn so he knows that his books will be safe in the wall/ventilator
amyw - I think that he has to be hypocritical if he wants to read. Montag was also very hypocritical but he couldn't quite his job or just tell everybody he likes books.
maddief thats a good explanation of love! But I'm just wondering what makes people start to love each other if they're not family members? What makes them have such a strong feeling toward another person?
Louise- I agree with you. I know that I do the same thing when something is wrong with me. I believe that by watching TV they are drowning out their problems, but TV isn't enough so they also take sleeping pills to try and make things normal for her.
Oh my gosh Nile, you're right! Maybe the books won't be burned. That'll show the firemen...I still feel bad though that they're going to burn their house. But in a way, if you think about it, by burning the house they're destroying the "family" and that only encourages Faber's and Montag's plan to make people think. Maybe the firemen are kind of hitting themselves...
Nile c- I think that he knew all along that they were going to burn his house because he is a fireman and that is their job so he had to know it was coming
It sounds like we all have different opinions about the whole thing with Mildred and the pills. They are all good ideas but who knows what is really going on inside of her head. Like Rachel said we need to know a lot more about her to decide what she was really trying to do, or what she is really feeling.
louiseb-i deffinatly think that people watch tv to drone out their own lives. i think that the tv shows then are much like they are today where everything tragic happens to the people. this makes the people in the society think that at least their lives are not nearly as bad as the families on the tv.then the shows also include comic releif as well.
I agree with what Rachel just said. I know when I have a bad day, all I want to do is put it behind me and I turn on the tv or listen to music or even go on the computer just to distract me from what went wrong.
Aaron - It hink that the government just called them and told them to change their job to burnign instead of saving, then so many generations passed so that no one remembered the original firemen.
I jagree with Nile. I think montag had an advantage with hiding and making sure that the books were not found because he was a firemen and he probably knew where to look for them. so as long as he hid them where they wouldn't usually look, they wouldn't be found.
John b- I dont think that love can exist is a society like this because there just isnt enough emotion, every one doesn't really think for themselves they just follow the standards
John- I think that it would be really hard to actually have a loving relationship in this society because I dont think there is any way for two people to get to know eachother good enough so that there can be love. People in this book dont really talk to eachother that much, it would be hard to get to know someone.
aaron - there's a pill for everything so there probably is a love pill. Mabye that's how they get people to marry and have kids together or else people would completly isolate themselves and only spend time with their "family".
242 comments:
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A lot of people posted questions/comments about Montag's hands doing someting for him. What do you think is the symbolism behind that?
I think it's saying that people are either good or bad and if they're good, then their hands do good things for them, like Montag's when he takes the books, or if you're bad, then your hands do bad things like Macbeth's killing duncan.
wow... why do we always do that?
Does anyone else think that our world will ever turn into Montag's society? I don't remember if it was Mrs. Bowle's or Mrs. Phelp's who had the children, but will future generations act like her, just shipping their kids off to school in order to get rid of them? It scares me to think of living in a world where no one cares for anyone else, whether it's their spouse or their children.
I think Mildred turned Montag in, because she is the nly one who knew he had more books.
i think Mildred might have turned him in. She seemed kind of overwhelmed with what he was Montag was doing.
brainc- i agree with you. also, is it required to put questions on?
Brianc- thats an interesting point. my question is do you think that people are solidly good or bad? If theyre are many layers to people, then do thier hands do both good and bad things?
I TOLD YOU GUYS SOO! Beatty DID find out about Montag!!!
Brian C.- I think that Montag's hands doing things for him symbolizes that he isn't actually doing things with his own will, he just kind of compulsivly doing things and can't really control it because the way he was brainwashed by the government.
maddief---I agree with you, this would be scary! You know your society has gone bad when people dislike children.
brianc- the whole hand thing is a really interestion point. I am not sure if in this book all of the actions his hands do are good or bad, however, it does seem as if they started the whole things with him going crazy about books and wanting to know more. The hand seemed to have started someting good that will result in a lot of change like when Macbeth used his hand to do different actions.
Maddief
I don't think that people will become that cold towards one another, but it is likely that we will become more disattached
brian-
I agree with you on the hands doing good and bad but it's interestin g how they blame it on the hands instead of thier brain or something. Good Macbeth connection. I had that connection too.
Why do you think the woman was crying if most people in that society didnt have the knowlegde to understand the poems?
I also think that Mildred truned in Montag because she was so unhappy and didn't want the books in her house
To answer the question in the middle, i think that Mildred turned in Montag because she was the only one who knew about him. Also, she seemed sketchy about the whole book idea. I dont think that she was ok with the idea of having books in her house...
I think that it is very intersting that people blame their hands for doing something bad but when they do something good then THEY did it, not their hands.
I think that Mildred turned him in because he was either scaring her or she had had enough of him breaking laws and trying to think while she lived with her "family".
I think Mildred probably turned him in because she is so stuck on doing what is the right thing for the society that her relationships dont stop her from turning people in
maddie-
i have been reading the book and it makes me really scared becuase so many of the things said make me think of our society and i dont want the world to turn into this
maddief-i think that in the future our society will send the children away. if you think about it, even in todays world if children are a problwm they are sent to boarding school, or camp. i think that our society is already stooping to that level.
BrianC-
You're right. And these connections that we have to make throughout the year is really weird. Hands in Macbeth, and now this...
I think that Mildred turned Montag in because she couldn't handle the stress. She knew that their house would be burned and that she was going to be dragged down with Montag, so she sacrificed him to save her life. I never thought that she would turn him in though; even though their relationship was slightly sour, I didn't think that she would betray him.
MaddieF- I think that there society has plunged to far into the ideas of equality and no books that there is now way the society will ever be like Montag's.
Everyone- there can be no way that mildred turned montag in. They live together so if thier house was burned then where would they bo. Also, Mildred was not the only one that knew about the books. Her two friends were over when Montag started reading the book so it was most likely them that went and told the firemen.
maddief- i think that society will not become exactly like that, but that it will be detached like Liap said...
also, a question was brought up about the woman knowing poetry: does anyone think this is weird??
nile i think that the fact that it was a book scared her into crying. And the poem made her sad because that's kind of what poems do.
I think Mildred turned Montag in. From the beginning, she was really overwhelmed and distraut because her husband was going against the government and she knew there would be consiquences. I think maybe she thought since she's the one who turned him in, the consequences would be less severe, at least on her part.
I think Mildred didn't want to be caught off guard and arrested when the firemen came, so she decided to beat them to the punch.
Nilec...maybe the she started crying because she has never read a book before and it something that is emotional to her. She has heard about books being bad all her life so she thinks that it could not happen to her.
lia-
I agree it would make most sense that Mildred turned him in because it doesn't really seem like she cares for him very much. And also she was against the whole having books thing from the start.
Why do you guys think Mrs. Phelps started to cry and Mrs. Bowles is mad at montag?
Also, how do you think the way Mrs. Phelps treats her children reflects society?
aaronw-I dont think that it's required to post questions, I just did it to get people posting.
nilec - I think that the woman was crying about Montag reading a poem because she was scared of books. Everybody is scared of getting there house burned down and that happens by having books. I think that the book has just been really assosiated with bad things, thats why the lady cried.
What do you guys think Montag has to do now? In tradition, the house, books, and the owner is burned. And if not, the owner is sent to an asylum.
Javon- who knows what will happen years and years from now. I sure hope that nothing will ever happen like that, but it does seem as if a lot of people don't really care about kids anymore. I have parents that love me a ton so it is easy for me to pick out the people that do not have loving parents because of thier actions.
But if Mildred turnes Montag in then it would hurt her and Montag and we know that she is a very selfish person so why would she do that.
about the mildred thing-
Mildred hated hte idea becuase it was against the rules and she diidnt want to get caoght, but if she was to turn him in, she would be turning herself in, becuase they couldn't tell whose books they are
I agree about Mrs. Phelps, and that the book was the reason why she started crying. I think that she started crying because she was brought up that way, not reading books.
nilec- i think that she cried and knew about it because everyone in the society knew books- like rachels said in the circle, it's how you're brought up:
everyone has probably read stuff, and knows a little bit about it...
anyone elses thoughts?
Mark- so your saying she cried because of fear of books?
I think that Montag might actually find a way out of the burning, John.
I think that the way they treat children in this society is kind of a red flag because when children are treated like that it really reflects the lack of caring people that live in the society
Hello? Why would Mildred turn it in when it means that her house and her "family" would be burnt. She cares too much about herself to do something like that and to ruin her whole house.
johnb-
Usually the owners weren't burned, they were arrested...just that one lady killed herself.
How could Mildred turn Montag in? She lived with him too, so why would she want to get all of her belongings burned? She couldn't have turned him in.
nilec-i think that the woman begans to cry because she somehow connects to the poetry. i think it might be because she has children and the poetry reminds her of the fact that their children dont love her, and she doesnt like her children
All the signs point to Mildred. Who else would have had more of a motive to turn Montag in? She didn't like the idea of having books or reading them, she just wanted to be "happy". She was probably willing to have the walls burned down just to feel safe and not get in trouble and to be safe from being "corrupted" by books.
brianc- i mean on the other blog, 91-110 questions...
do you have to do that??
pheobe i don't think that people are either com[letely good or completely bad because i think everyone has some some good/bad in them. and also i think that people can change their goodness/badness level like Macbeth.
Josed - I think that everybody treats there children like something entirely different then they do know. I think that they see them as annoying people that they have to put up with several times a month. I think that they only have children because they understand that people need to have children to continue generations of people. They don't have kids because they want to like people do know.
Lia, I agree, I think that future generations will be more disattached. But where will that lead to? How long will people simply be disattached? I think that generations drift away from relationships until friendships and love have dwindled away into nothingness. I seriously don't want for that to happen, but how can we change the way that society is heading?
jose- i think that these woman are upset because they were brought up hating books. They do not know what they are all about. If your neighbors were shooting guns in their backyard you would be outraged...its the same idea.
Josed-I think that Mrs. Phelps started to cry because she noticed how she was acting and noticed how bad it was but she didn't want to know so she left. That might also be a reason why she could've been the one who reported Montag, because she didn't want to know how bad she was.
aaronw yes you have to do the question blogs
Elisabeth, I think because it's the last straw, and she doesn't want to be burnt by someone else: she wants to hurt herself. She's afraid of Beatty hurting her, but not about a pill binge
LiaP-
And like I said, they either were burned OR sent to an asylum.
Do you think that since parents just send thier kids off, that may be part of the reason that the kids in this society are so violent? Do the kids have depression like Mildred does?
liz- that's a good point. I didn't think that mildred turned him in, but i wasn't quite sure...
what other reasons could there be against midred turning him in??
I agree with pheobe. Today's society is already shipping away their kids. When they're young, kids are sent to daycare because the parents have to work and can't watch them. They get older and they go to school 5 out of 7 days a week. Then they go to college and they either live there or they come back home on the weekends and are busy with their homework and working in general.
i think that mildred turned montag in because we se that she puts the books out side. this indicates that she knew the books were going to be burned and was hoping that if she removed the books from the house, then maybe the firemen would only burn the books and not the house.
Jose- I think that these two ladies acted the way that any two ladies would act today if confronted with such an illegal act, like what Rachel said in the converesation
aaronw-I think you do have to post questions on the reading because it's part of the homework. You can ask Mrs Smith when she comes back, or you can try E-Mailing her tonight.
Elisabeth c- That is a good point, Mildrec does really care about her TV and things like that but I also think that she was pressured into it in a way because she is so enthralled in society that she would do anything for the society just to live up to standards that were set for her even if it meant losing something that she cares about
Nile, the lady might be crying, because the poem talks about war, and her husband is away, so she makes a personal connection and she gets filled with sadness for the first time.
In the fishbowl it was brought up that mothers sometime send their kids to daycare all day and they say that they are too busy. then the usually are always doing stuff fro themselves not other people like getting their nails done or going shopping for themselves.
louiseb-
I agree. If children don't get loved by their parents then they won't love as they grow up, which is wy they are so violent and cold. Like the ladies who got married three times and they weren't even sad about the war and the fact that their husbands could die. Also, they think that "it always happens to someone else", but everyone is someone else.
There seems to be a lot of death in this book. Is it possible to really have a perfect like with death all around?
I think that it could have been Mildred. I think that she saw that Montag could have brought her down with him if they had been discovered with books in their house. She saw that the only way to ensure her well being was to turn in her husband.
Do you think that the kids actions are a result of the parents actions?
or...
Are the parents sending the kids off because of their behavior?
I think it's sad about how marriages are thrown away like tissues in this book. Does anyone else think this?
nile
what are you asking?
Johnb- I think that Mildred did turn him in. She thought that since she was the one to turn him in, they wouldn't burn down her house. Someone would just take Montag away.
Jose- I do not think that she wants to hurt herself. She has a bad memory or is addicted to pills which is why she takes so many. No one wants to purposely hurt themselves unless they have life problems or somethings. She does not want to give up all of her possesions or anything like that.
amyw-
Yes. It's really sad how they don't even care
addind on to my last comment: this relates to most of the people in the book because they don't really care about others
Alyssa, that's a good question! I think that maybe the kids have so much school, that all they want to do is be violent. It's like how Clarisse said that it was all funnels.
Does anyone agree with me when i say that everyone is so emotionless becuase their parents didnt love them when they were kids?
AlyssaS-
I do believe that the kids are depressed, as well as Mildred. OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! That is something Bradbury predicted! Kids ARE depressed, sometimes more so than adults. Suicide rates for teens are way up.
megan- that is a good point, but don't they always burn the houses no matter what. It is much more likely that the ladies that came over went and told on him instead.
Markg-
I agree. That makes sense
Alyssa s- I think that the fact that kids are just dumped somewhere sometimes does influence their violent behavior. At daycares and things there is only one person for lots of kids to look up to and so they start to look up to other kids so if there is a violent kid there is a pretty good chance that a lot of other kids will become violent also
How does Faber compare to Clarisse? If they were to meet and discuss the future, I think that Faber would want one with books, and Clarisse would want one where people think. How do these futures coincide? Books encourage you to think, but could you have one future without the other?
ooo..
for people in Cornils Honors Hhistory:
amyw made a point about how marriages are like tissues being thrown away...
CONNECTION!!!!! EXPENDABILITY!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
amyw- i think that marrige isnt taken for granted like it is in this book. The celebrity parall isnt very true becuase we only hear aboutt the people who divorce
AlyssaS-
good point....
why do you think that kids are frequently depressed?
alexd - I think that the parents were to blame for the kids being so violent. They know that their parents don't love them so they are very hostile as kids and if they do grow up they will probably be just like their parents towards their kids.
Alex-
I think it may be a little bit of both. Maybe the kids act the way they are because of their parents then the parent don't like it so they send them away.
alyssas- i dont think that the children of the society are depressed, but rather emotionaly dead. they've grown up in this society, and they dont know anything different. that could also be why they are so violent. they dont feel remporse for killing and violence.
aaron...
haha
good social studies connestion
john- good comparison to the whole thing with the kids being depressed and stuff. That is actually kind of true. We have school shootings, and kids drive around drunk and kill other people.
AaronW-
Yeah, that's kinda creepy. But you're right
Amy- I noticed that too. People kind of see mariages as expendable and they don't take time to build relationships, they just marry to meet the social standards, not because it makes them happy.
But elisabeth, she does have life problems. Usually, when you're addicted to sleeping pills, you're depressed. I've got a family member who's got problems like Mildred, so I really think she can have problems
Amy- Yes it's really sad. Not only are marriages being thrown away but there really aren't any strong relationships at all in this book. Marriages aren't for love, parents don't love their children and just send them away. The whole idea of a family has disappeared.
Alyssa- I don't think that the kids are in a depression because they never really knew their parents so they couldn't miss them. I think they are always killing each other and are so violent is because they were never taught any differently.
So, what will happen when this crazed generation of kids grow up and are responsible for protecting and providing and keeping society safe. Is society even safe now? (in the book, not in real life)
molly I meant that in the book marriages are like tissues. In our society today it's not quite that extreme.
in the fishbowl they talked about how we keep getting upgrades or getting more t.v.'s. If this keeps happening we are going to end up watching more and more t.v. and eventually we might end like the poeple in the book.
maddief- i think that faber and clarisses only connection is that they were challenging the system...
Mark g- I think that the fact that perents dont pay any attention to their kids helps make the kids emotionless because they havent been shown any emotion.
Does anyone think that when kids grow up they wont be able to love and get married and things because of the lack of emotion as a child?
josed-
If you can't sleep and take sleeping pills for a long time, you can't get to sleep without them. You don't neccesarily have to be depressed, just dependant.
I think that it is amazing that Ray Bradbury was able to predict the future so well. There are so many parallels that can be drawn between this book and our society today.
Well, here's a new question: what do all the quotes Beatty says mean?
BrianC-
Good Point! But, it depends... What is safe now? Getting rid of rebels or stopping unfairness?
In this book marriages seem really expendable. One of Mildred's friends had 2 husbands that died and shes in her third marriage and still isn't going to be sad if her next husband dies.
maddief- i think that the difference between faber and clarisse is that clarisse is not afraid to be a free thinker, where as faber wants to be a free thinker, but is to scared to. I think that there desires for the future are similar, but clarisse is more focused on happiness, and faber is more focused on knowledge.
luke-
yes it's true
it is very sad because I believe in marriages for life...
I was listening to the inner cirlce awhile ago and they were talking about how having a TV in every room is scary. Well, my parents won't get more then 2 TVs, one for the family and one for my mom, and reading F451 makes me kind-of see why. Does anyone else notice stuff like that or is it just me?
Lia, it's not just about the pills: it's obvious Mildred has problems because she's plugged in to a screen. That's how my family member is like, so that's why I think Mildred has problems
Jose I thought that Beatty's quotes were hypocritical because he's a fireman and how could he know them if he hadn't read?
I agree with what everyone's saying in the inner discussion; all that we want to do is upgrade. I mean, one day the hottest item is an Ipod, and then a month later it's an Ipod video. People go around plugged in, wanting to have the newest item. At my church when we go up to winter and summer camps, we're not allowed to listen to music because it disconnects us from everyone else. Mildred plugs herself into her Seashell and never talks to Montag.
I agree with what Elizabeth just said, sometimes when I babysit, the parent hands me a video and tells me to watch it with them. They might be learning from the T.V., but they're not learning how to act socially. All they do is sit there staring at a screen with a glazed expression on their faces. Gee, that's real healthy for your kids.
phoebef-
I agree. The main difference between Clarisse and Faber is that Faber is a coward and Clarisse isn't scared to be a free thinker.
WAIT!!!!!!!!! How do you burn a fireproof house?
louiseb- i think that the children will get married because it is the expectation of the society, not because the love each other, or want to get married.
brian-
to add to what you said if the younger generation in the book is violent and they are not learning any differently the generation after them is going to be even worse and it's going to keep on going on like that untill they like wipe out the population.
liap-
do you think that when faber was younger he challenged more and was a free thinker??
phoebef - I agree that that Clarisse isn't afraid to be free thinking. I don't even know if Clarisse knew that what she was doing was wrong. She may have had books and she definatly would have known those were wrong but just thinking differently wasn't against any laws or anything like that.
Louise- I think that the kids will grow up and get married but I don't think they will be happy. I think that since the way the kids were raised, as being sent off and seeing the relationship between there parents, they won't be happy because like their parents, they will just try to meet the standards to be normal.
If the house are fireproof and they only burn the contents of the house people could hide books in the walls.
jose- that is really steriotypical. Just because she takes sleeping pills does not mean that she id depresses. Some people need them. It is just that they end up over-using them. Also, why would she want to hrt herself?
Stef- I noticed that too! I think they burned the buildings, even though they're fire proof, just to publicize what will happen if anyone had books. I think it's a way to scare other people who have books into getting rid of them.
How does Beatty know all these quotes? It's almost like he has his own library at home or even at the firestation. Mabye, if Montag gets away, he should go search Beatty's house and try to expose him.
Aaronw-
No. He said he was always a coward, and that he never spoke out wenhe head the chance.
allysas- at the rate the world is going, the world might end before they can get married...
:)
brian -
your not the only one i was thinking the same thing and that if we wern't givin homework alot of us would end up watching t.v. which could get bad
The whole Baby Einstein thing just freaks me out. How can a 1 or 2 year old get anything out of a video like that??? It's just scary, plunking your kid down in front of a video to make them "smart" so you can also get them out of your hair. It's stupid.
liap-
oh sorry
i forgot that...
Luke, I think that marriage is for life too. It's a partnership between two people, but it's one whose basis is love. The people in Montag's society don't love each other. They marry for necessity, or frankly, for some fun, not because they want to spend their life with that person.
Maddie, connecting to your comment on the video:
Its been proven that plugging kid's in to the tv like that causes autism. Because it's passive entertainment on a screen where the tv tells you what to do, it stunts development. Also, this destroys social relationships, since they only know about the TV
alyssa- that is a really good point. I have parents that love eacchother a ton and there are 5 of us kids. Watching them makes me want to have a loving relatinship when I am older, but with other kids who have divorced parents they grow up with the idea of not having a loving relationship later. A lot of things depend on what you are surrounded with.
Amen, Amy! Seriously, sitting a toddler in front of an emotionless object and having it shove facts in their faces is not healthy. Kids need interactive learning with people, not technology.
There doesn't seem to be any love in this book. People aren't even really friends! Notice how Mildred talks about the ladies coming over and never talks about her friends coming over. There are pretty much no relationships to speak of in this book.
Jose-I think the houses just have a fire-proof barrier so that, once the firemen burn throug the barrier, then that house just burns itself. That's why they flood the house with karosene, so the fire has something to burn while it melts throught the barrier.
Brain-
Yeah, how DOES Beatty know this stuff?
brian-
that's a really interesting point. That's a possibility that beatie has books because he always seems to be saying some quote and maybe he thought that if he was a fireman noone would suspect him of having books.
What would love be defined in the book?
Amy-
aagree with you. But a lot of parents do that and how do you know you wont change your mind about it?
Elisabeht
Not stereotypical, I'm speaking from my experience. She hurts herself because she feels empty and hates her life.
I've seen this from my personal life, like I've said before.
brian
didn't they fireproof them so that the firemen wouldn't have to ever put out a fire again?
I think that Beatty definaltly has books. He knows so many quotes that he must have read the books that they were in to know all of them
I agree with Amy.We can learn a lot using technology, we are doing it right now. They just need to find a better balance between technology and reality.
nile
do you think then that thats why he keeps his books in the venalator grille?
I don't think that technology will ever go away because there are so many goo things that techology can be used for but there are also so many bad things, people just have to indevidually go the extra mile to avoid the bad stuff.
Johnb-
I think love would be defined as a man and a woman who have known each other for a year or more, or as what families are required to feel for each other.
nile that's true, but I just don't think kids can become smarter from sitting in front of the TV. Who knows I might change my mind though...
oops, spelling error.
elisabethc- i dont think that kids whos parents are divorced dont desire a loving relationship. I think that somethimes they desire it even more. i think its is different in montags society because they dont have any examples to gooff of. in todays society, even if your parents are divorced, you can see examples from other peoples parents and other people.
amy-
well their is the relationship between clarisse and montag.
Will someone answer me? Besides Liap, and thank you.
kristen
yes but what about if he was ever discovered? wouldn't that be the end of the firemen's regime if someone with books was in power? or would the world not care?
I think that Nicole brought up a really good point in the discussion about how we all listen to music and watch T.V. in hopes of drowning things out. I know that when i had a really bad day or im upset about something i listen to music to get my mind off of it, it kind of seems like we have technology to escape our own thoughts
DO you think that this is the reason that mildred and other people watch so much T.V. because they are so unhappy with their own lives that they have to drown them out?
Did anyone else notice that they went to burn Montags house but he hid the books in the bush outside!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!tricky Montag. Maybe he suspected they were going to burn his house.
Luke I agree because he couldn't have got those quotes from the "walls". I think he's really hypocritical, it's like he's a fire captain and he burns people's house for having books but he probably does to.
John, I think that the definition of love is caring about that person. It's a feeling that you get that's almost a possessive jealousy, like you don't want anyone else around that person. The only person I've seen that truly feels that way is Clarisse's family. Everyone else just ships their kids off to school, but Clarisse's family cared enough about her to raise her themselves.
Aaron-No, I don't think that's why they fireproofed the homes. Remember, they thought that the first fireman was Benjamin Franklin who was responsible for burning books with contrary ideas, so why would they fireproof the homes so the firemen wouldn't have to put out fires if they neve did that in the first place, at least, not that they know of.
jose was bringing this circle questions with the inner circle:
SHE IS NOT DEPRESSED!!! SHE IS ONLY DEPENDENT, WHICH IS STILL NOT GOOD!!! jus thought i'd make it clear... :)
I agree with what Nicole said; I think that if it is quiet, you think about everything because nothing is occupying your mind, buut when listening to music or watching TV., your thoughts are drowned out.
johnb-i think that in the books excepted society love exists only in theory. i think that clarisse knows what love is and is sharing the knowledge with montag. i think that mildred and montag deceive themselves into thinking that the love each other, much like montag thinks he is happy at the beggining of the book.
Thank you, MaddieF.
NileC-
i noticed that too...
good observation.
Oh yes NILE! He is tricky isn't he? Good point though about how he maybe had an idea that they would come and burn his house.
molly and nile-
ya that makes sense that he would hid eit in the wall/ventilator because he knows what they burn and don't burn so he knows that his books will be safe in the wall/ventilator
amyw - I think that he has to be hypocritical if he wants to read. Montag was also very hypocritical but he couldn't quite his job or just tell everybody he likes books.
maddief thats a good explanation of love! But I'm just wondering what makes people start to love each other if they're not family members? What makes them have such a strong feeling toward another person?
Aaronw-
I agree. Thanks for making that clear :)
Louise- I agree with you. I know that I do the same thing when something is wrong with me. I believe that by watching TV they are drowning out their problems, but TV isn't enough so they also take sleeping pills to try and make things normal for her.
And phoebe!
Well, aaron, she's kinda plugged in, it's not just the pills, it's the seashells, the screens, AND the pills
true brain
but how did it change so rapidly?
did they just suck the original firemens brains out???
Oh my gosh Nile, you're right! Maybe the books won't be burned. That'll show the firemen...I still feel bad though that they're going to burn their house. But in a way, if you think about it, by burning the house they're destroying the "family" and that only encourages Faber's and Montag's plan to make people think. Maybe the firemen are kind of hitting themselves...
Can love in a society like this exist?
Nile c- I think that he knew all along that they were going to burn his house because he is a fireman and that is their job so he had to know it was coming
yes jose
but she is DEPENDENT on those things, not depressed...
Alex-Why thank you!
It sounds like we all have different opinions about the whole thing with Mildred and the pills. They are all good ideas but who knows what is really going on inside of her head. Like Rachel said we need to know a lot more about her to decide what she was really trying to do, or what she is really feeling.
I agree with what Rachel is saying, I don't think Mildred realized what she was doing when she ODed, her subconcious just took over.
louiseb-i deffinatly think that people watch tv to drone out their own lives. i think that the tv shows then are much like they are today where everything tragic happens to the people. this makes the people in the society think that at least their lives are not nearly as bad as the families on the tv.then the shows also include comic releif as well.
aaron-
ummmmm. i hadn't thought that far haha
I agree with what Rachel just said. I know when I have a bad day, all I want to do is put it behind me and I turn on the tv or listen to music or even go on the computer just to distract me from what went wrong.
is there a love pill?
megan-
i agree with you on what you said about people shipping off their kids
i never really saw all those in that was before
Aaron - It hink that the government just called them and told them to change their job to burnign instead of saving, then so many generations passed so that no one remembered the original firemen.
I jagree with Nile. I think montag had an advantage with hiding and making sure that the books were not found because he was a firemen and he probably knew where to look for them. so as long as he hid them where they wouldn't usually look, they wouldn't be found.
Aaron, are you saying that she is dependent on the pills. I'm a little confused what you meant by that.
mildred's not depresssed, she's just lost and confused. And she takes the pills to numb the pain.
Aaron-
That's REALLY gross, but I wouldn't be surprised.
brian-
okay
i get it
p.s
good costume
hehe
mine stinks
John b- I dont think that love can exist is a society like this because there just isnt enough emotion, every one doesn't really think for themselves they just follow the standards
John B.- I think love in this society can exist, Clarisse is an example of that, but not a lot of love does exisit.
Maddie, on the firemen hitting themselves...
Faber said that it would be like the salamander eating its tail.
So...
Maybe this WAS part of montag's "Master Plan." Now that he's thinking for himself, he may have thought this up.
Sneaky!
John-
I think that it would be really hard to actually have a loving relationship in this society because I dont think there is any way for two people to get to know eachother good enough so that there can be love. People in this book dont really talk to eachother that much, it would be hard to get to know someone.
molly should answer this:
is there a love potion?
and if so, in HP, what's in it?
salamander at all?
just wondering...
aaron - there's a pill for everything so there probably is a love pill. Mabye that's how they get people to marry and have kids together or else people would completly isolate themselves and only spend time with their "family".
aaronw-
Ya actually there is something that makes you feel like you're in love, but it's illeagal
Nile-
your welcome!!!!!
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