Why would Guy think of his house as a tomb and yet love the presence of fire?Why would the author portray so many people as having drug problems, especially someone so close to the main character?What are the ear-pieces Mildred wears? What do you think is their purpose?Why does Guy seek out the company of the girl?What is the vent in the ceiling that Guy seems so certain is watching him?They live in a fast-paced world where bilboards have ot be 200 feet long just so people can see them as they're driving by, but their real lives move almost as if in slow-motion. What do you think?
The family is definately diAnd fferent and i think Clarisse is most different because even her parents who seem normal to us make her see a psychyatrist. And to reply to Javon I think fireman are negetive because they burn books which are a great source of ideas.
What are the bombers/planes that fly over him? The book said they dropped bombs on him and that they exploded, wouldn't this kill him?
Matt that's interesting. WHere did you find that? What page?
Does anyone else think that it is wierd that Montag has a mechanical dog? I would prefer a real dog thank you very much...
mattf- I don't recall reading anything about bombs or stuff like that...
mattf-The futuristic country is probably in the midst of a war or there are terrorists or something, which is funny because even though they burn the books there is still disagreement.
ya i must have missed the bombs or not have read that or something
Parker- Im not sure, it was in the first twenty four pages.
Just to let everyone know, the reason I posted those questions was because those are the questions I chose to be my presenter questions. I didn't know whether or not I was supposed to post them, so I posted them anyway, jsut to be on the safe side.
MattF, I think that there weren't actually bombers flying over him, I think that he was just trying to represent how horrible this event was. He likes to use similes a lot, and have a bomb split you in half would very painful, just like it is painful for him to see his wife in the horrible state. Wouldn't you be pretty sad if someone you loved was going to have their blood and stomach changed which would change who they were?
Morgan, this is set in the future so a mechanical dog probably wouldn't be weird. It is right now though.
i agree, mabe it was just a representation and the bomberes seemed like thay would be the best way to show it
My Comment- end of page 13, beginning of page 14
The governmetn in 451 seems robotic and lacks the human touch. They don't reach out to its citizens. I think that Bradbury is scared of the control that our government could have on people.
Thanks parkerh-I guessed as much, but I still would prefer a real dog. =D
Do the people even know who the government is and why does his wife not remember taking all the pills. Is it just what happens or did something happen to her to make her forget.
i bet watever is normal right now wld be weird in the future and the world is like the opposite of today
The govt is proably this way to prevent conflict but it takes away certain freedoms that humans should have.
I wouldn't be able to live with mechanical dogs. It's all fake. Dogs are some of the most loving and happiest animals alive, even if they aren't super intelligent. It's a mockery of Canine-ism....
Yo Parker! You asked what page the jets fly over: its page 14.
That would be weird, wouldn't the dog be cold to your touch?
morgant- Montag doesn't own the mechanical dog, it lives at the fire station where he sits all day waiting for a house that he needs to burn down. The mechanical dog is kind of like the firehouse pet.
mattf- Maybe Montag is all of a sudden seeing his life flash before his eyes, or he is like experiencing a flashback of setting a fire or being in war or something...I don't think Bradbury meant that literally.
In response to leslie in the inner circle I think that the government just gives them jobs to give them a purpose to live because it seems like they lost their want to live life. And they lost the significance and joy of life. I mean come on they even have a mechanical dog. Doesn't make you happy when your dogs great you or want to play with you. That represents joy and life and they dont even have that any more. I agree with the fact that hanna said that the govenment is like communistic trying to control everything and that is just accepted by everyone. No challenged that, but then we see clarisse who is willing to challange the government and the traditional way of living.
mattf- I think the planes were just showing what is seems like in his head. Like the comotion of the overwelming feelings that come up when he sees his wife.
MorganT-To state the obvious, I think the reason he has a mechanical dog is because it's more "efficient" than a living dog. No mess, nothing to walk or feed. It's one of the smaller details that makes the story fit into a more technological and mechanical futuristic world.I think Guy keeps seeking out the girl because he's so curious aboutwhat she knows and how she knows it. Imagine this young girl knowing so much about an old life that you had no clue existed.
The burning of books reminds me of the Series of Unfortunate Events. Snicket really portrays books as the only thing that the world can trust. Books are something to treasure because a book is something that olds information forever.
clarisse seems like she understands wat they are going through and the others are kind like if u've ever read a wrinkle in time, the people that all act the same way, it seems like montag and the rest of society are just like those people
Well books also represent knowledge.
morgan-I think he did, there's planes flying over his house bombing him.
Becky's comment reminds me of the series, Uglies, Pretties, and Specials. In this book everyone is so excited to become a pretty. When they are an uglie they have flaws and thoughts, but when they become pretty, they have all their flaws taken away, and then just party all the time. This series shows how equality can seem so perfect and wonderful, but then there is sacrifices. Knowledge vs equality.
JordanH-I totally agree that government has lost a feel for I guess feeling, emotion, and all the other things that the World loves and cherishes.I think that the government thought that taking things like that out would make things better but it took the things that make the earth amazing OUT.
the government kind of brainwashes the people, even in a democracy. so if even a democracy brainwashes people, how brianwashed is the society Mpntag lives in?
tyler, i agree with you because guy thought that the girl was weird for catching raindrops in her mouth and for talking with her family, so he does think that what we do now is not normal.
MattF- I think the bombers were meant to be figurative and were symbolic of his world crashing down on him when he found his wife almost dead. I don't think they were actual planes, but literary tools to demonstrate his feelings.
Hey guys, who thinks that Clarisse's uncle is the main character in The Pedestrian? Clarisse says that her uncle was arrested for being a pedestrian. Could he be referencing his other work?
mitchs- okay... that clears up some questions.I think that Montag's wife is wierd. Did she like try to commit suicide?
Clarisse says that Montag is different from the other firemen. How is he so different?
I think it was weird that so much could happen in just 24 pages.....
AlexF (fishbowl)- I agree that it's strange that they had such a normal outlook on suicide. To me, it really says a lot about how different their society is than ours.
Jordan, idk, b/c the part of the pedestrian we read din't rly say that he got arrested, he just got in the car, but mayb, it would put a twist on the story
jordanh- I noticed that too! That sparked a real connection in my mind! It is in the future, I mean that there was a police car without a driver, and there is so much technology... hmmmmmm......
yes jordan, i agree with you, and in fact, i was thinking about that when i read this last night.
catem- I connected it to Uglies, Pretties and Specias, (and now extras!) where the government is in control and change their brains but many people don't even believe in them.
I think that the people are not necessarily brainwashed I think that they have never seen or heard of anything else but following the government. Like becky said how can you know if you are happy if you dont know the opposite, sad. So they dont know the opposite, which clarisse will present to him, and havent wanted to challenge the government in order to get an unknow result.
I don't think that brain washing is the problem I think it is the idea of an integrated society that was forced into something but has become so much of the daily life it takes over. The odd becomes the norm.
what becky said in the circle- It is totally true that you can't experience happines sif you don't know what it is to be sad. It's not that the peoplle in this town aren't happy but I don't think they are AS happy as they could be. I'm sure everyone would agree that when you struggle through something and then provale or win it's worth so much more.
mattw- I agree! A lot happened in the first several pages... I wonder what is yet to come.
I don't think his wife tried to commit suicide. I don't think she realized how many sleeping pills she was taking. When she is awake, she seems controlled by the TV and very detached from reality. She probably took the pills because something on the TV was advertising a great sleep.
macm~I think that the dogs don't really have the purpose of dogs present day. I think that they are just used for "practicle matters". I don't think that people in the community have dogs as companions. So I don't think that many people pet the dogs. I think that their feeling of companionship is fulfilled by the TVs.
Can you be happy if there is no sorrow? can you know light if there is no darkness?
MaddieH, I agree. The fact that they consider suicide somewhat normal, then that must mean that people aren't happy. That kinda implies that life sucks in the future....
The casual use of pills in this society. Is this a reference to the way we use drugs and sleep medicine in our society? Or is this just what they have to do to remain happy?
ryad- I love those books and it is really similar except in Pretties etc., they are physically performing surgery to alter the way people think.
MorganT- I think that it can be assumed that that is what she tried but it is still unclear. Although suicide shows a severe problem mentally, I wonder what was her motive from trying (if that's what she really did) to kill herself?
If the government is the same in this book as it is in the pedestrian then why hasnt clarisse and her family been arrested yet?
Macm- i don't think that the planes dropped any bombs on Montag or his community.tylerg- i know what you mean, i was looking at my Uncle's high school year book from the 80's. everything they wore and did seemed odd to me.Do you guys thinkk that Montag's government is communistic? Is he even in the US? is the US even around?
Does anyone else think that Clarisse is challenging the system severly by asking qusetions?
I agree with Mitch S that she didn't try to commit suicide she just kept forgetting how many she took and kept taking more pills.
ya jordan, it seems like as time goes on, new fashions take over obviously, but whenever we see someone wearing something that was popular at there time or saying something like groovy, we think that they are strange and avoid them
Why have firemen reversed their roles? Now their job is to start fires and burn books. Is the burning of the books a censorship of all of the bad things in the world by the government?
ryanm- I totally think so! She just seems like one of those people who have an impact on tons of people, but they don't know it...
jordanh- okay why don't you think they dropped bombs? I'd like to know what actually happened.
Ryan- I think that Clarisse and her whole family is all about challenging the systemJordan- I think Clarisse's uncle is the same person and the main character in The Pedestrian.
i agree with mitchs because they are basically obsessed with tv, and don't think that talking, and walking to get air is good or normal, so i think that they lead pretty miserable and boring lives, so maybe se just didn't notice that she overdosed on the sleeping pills.
tylerg- you make a good point, technically the Pedestrian wasn't arrested. maybe its just a "shout-out" to his other book. the connection between the first 24 pages and the Pedestrian is huge.
jordan h- i dont think the government is communistic. i think it may be a socialistic governmtent though
I dont think that she was trying to kill herself because like her husband says that she may have forgotten that she already took the pills. Maybe those earpieces she is wearing are having the same affect on her and the noises in the mans ear in harrison bergeron. She cant remember her thoughts because of the noices.
Ryanm, ya it is an obvious "rebellion". I have a ???. Is the "government" opposed to people being in "love"?
I agree parker, you can't appreciate the good parts of life, when there is nothing bad. Events would just be normal events.Does anyone think that the government is watching each of the houses through those vents that Montag keeps looking at?
ryanm- I agree with you. I think Mortog seems to just accept everything everyone tells him. He hasn't really wondered or questioned the society so far.
To add on to my last comment, how did Montag get hurt if there really were no bombers?
Ryan-I don't think questions are dicouraged it is to talk about the past that is bad or against the law.
i think this book is in a way the opposite of LOF and Macbeth because it is moving in the oposite direction of becoming savage. it is all about this "perfect" socertiy where there is little connectin to the outside world and human contact.
hmmm... Montag's wife seems kind of like a wierd character. Maybe she has multiple personality disorder! *gasp* (just kidding)But.. she is really wierd.
yes ryan Clarisse is challenging the system by asking questions, because she is saying that the government does not always know best.
StephenF/MitchS- I think that they said she lost count of the pills to make it seems accidental or not that big of a deal. I think she really did try to commit suicide, and it's just easier on them to pretend that nothing really happened. Denial is easier than facing the truth.
mattw- I wouldn't be suprised if they didn't want love because we all know love can cause problems and passion and those are things that the government doens't want.
Does anyone else think that a book is hidden in the vent and he feels guilty about it?
macm- i think that the jets simply flew over. although there ws a screaming noise, i think that that was just from the jets flying overdoes anybody else know about this??
mattw i don't really think that the gov. is opposed to people being in love, but that guy is not in love with his wife.
maybe he is in love with things that are different. Burning is not something that everyone does and clarisse is definitely not like every one else.
maddisonm- that could very well be... There is a "perfect" society, but it really isn't...but in Macbeth, it turned from perfect into something horrible. Does anyone get this?
this book reminds me of the quote fair is foul and foul is fair. there is such a fine line between the peoples happiness and sadness
Why is Montag so deeply affected by what Clarisse says? He doesn't object to anything she says, even when she is insulting his job.
jordan, do u think religion plays a role in the book or is there even a religion?
ryad- i dont think Montag has a book because it is against the law....plus he loves burning books!!!
I dont think that religion plays a roll in this book at least not yet.
about the Mildred montag marriage-i really agree w/ hannah- i think tha it is simply socially expected to be married, that he is simply married to her for the sake of having a wife. I think that clarise is actually making Montag THINK and use his brain instead of just having somebody else do this.
mitchl-There probably are people "in love" at this time, but compared to "love" right now it might be really different. Like in the Giver, Jonas's parents say that love is a useless word, and that they enjoy his presence. Is love in this time enjoying people's presence? Or something different altogether?
MADDISONM, I totally agree with you. I thinkk that it's becuase people tend to follow whoever will lead. So I think that in LOF and Macbeth, the people who were "leaders" had a positive goal, but in this book, from what I can tell, the gov't has a bad goal b/c they wan't everything to be a certain way. thats bad. they naturally want to oppose.
Kristenh, i am also wondering about why Clarisse's family hasn't been arrested yet if they are so a opposed to the society. My only idea would be is that they found some way around the system.
catem- That's what I thought about those vents, I think there is a government camera or something up there to keep track of what Montag and Mildred are doing. There is probably one in every house.
I personally don't think there is a "perfect society" in this earth. There are too many human mistakes, and machines that "fix" the problems cause more.
tylerg- i think that religion has probably been rid of, but i don't really know. it seems that they have rid thier culture of the older traditions, so i doubt that people practivce faith, but its too early to decide this...what do you think tyler?
parkerh, you bring up the idea of distopia. Or, in other words, the impossibility that there can be a utopia. I spent a whole class in 6th grade discussing that, and it is a very interesting topic. Every book that seems like a utopia (451, the Giver) has a person who rebels and sees many problems with perfection. I personally don't believe it is possible, and I don't beleive it should be, because nothing is perfect, and that is good.
I want to comment the "love thing.": ok so the song Green Day right, in When September Ends, he says "innocence will never last" and if you think about it, that is so sad. This story seems to demonstate that in the future, there isnt such thing as true, innocent love. Much like in the Giver. And because everyone is the same, there is no hate, but without hate, you cant necessarily love either.And in this society, they say they love but really, when it is tested by a childish, innocent way (the dandylion), this notion is proved otherwise. Parkerh-i dont believe there could ever be a perfect society either, yet, that is our human flaw---we want things to be perfect. People want things to be easier (which is what us as humans or animals do) but what is easy isnt always good. It's so much easier to drive 10 miles rather than walk, but every mile driven is ruining our earth. So it all comes back to what is right, and what is wrong(sorry i only have one big comment, my class computer doesnt let me blog)
ryanm- I agree that Clarrise is cahllenging the system by asking all those questions. Montag is acting like he has never heard these kind of questions before, like this is odd. He is almost aken back by it. Not amny people must ask or question things, they just follow what they know and leave it at that. But she is also challeging the system, along with her family in many other ways too.
Today I was a presenter and I had all these questions that I was going to ask but I didn't get the chance so here are a few I'm curios to hear what you all have to say.1) Montag makes the connection to how he wishes that the mechanics could have just "...taken her mind along to the dry cleaner's and emptied the pockets and steamed and cleansed itand reblocked it and brought it back in the morning." Why do you think Montag wishes that his wife would have just been cleaned and replaced, wouldn't that mean a different person?2) What are your thoughts on the relationship between Montag and Mildred, do you think that it is pretty typical in relationships today or very odd to see?
mitchs- he may be so intrigued by Clarisse because he knows that deep down, she really is right. He may be getting this sense that she may know something he doesn't. That's the impression I'm getting at least.
I agree with what morgant said. I think that he gets the feeling that she knows something that he doesn't and that is intriguing to him just like things we dont know about are integuing to us. Like what will happen if you push that shiny red button.
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