Tuesday, October 23, 2007

Fishbowl 451 40-68 Period 2

235 comments:

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BrianC said...

I have a question that I've been wondering about since Monday night, Why does Montag act like he's sick?

aaronw said...

maybe he is brian... you never know til later...

Liap said...

I think Montag really is sick.

maddief said...

Brian, I think that Montag is actually sick; with himself that is. He can not deal with the fact that he is burning books, but keeping them when it is his job to burn them is hard on him too.

josed said...

Ok, how about this question: what do you think Beatty's Backstory is if hes so cultured?

kristenw said...

Brain-
i'm not sure if he's faking. He might be exagerating but i don't think he's completely faking.

ZachH said...

i think he is too. I don't think Mildred or Beatty believe him, but i think he is sick

nicolek said...

I think montag acts like he's sick because he doesn't want to go to work becuase of the lady that was burned. He is questioning if he should continue to be a firefighter

amandah said...

Brian I think he acts sick because he was truamatized by the fact that they burned a woman alive.

alyssas said...

I agree with Lia. I think that Montag is actually sick.

KatherineM said...

I think Montag really is sick, not physically sick, but the thought of everything that is going on makes hiim sick.

BrianC said...

I think he's actually more worried or disturbed instead of sick, I mean, when the captain leaves, he jumps up and runs to the grate, so I don't think he's actually sick, physically at least.

chelseas said...

I also thought that this was very interesting. At first, I didn't think that Montag was the sort of person who would be the type of person to read the book that he stole from the fire. I as sort of surprised that he had so many books.

josed said...

I think Montag might be sick really, but due to emotional causes. Like, he's gone overloaded with emotion

Lukez said...

I know that he has been acting like he is sick but I don't know if it is because he is very worried mentally and that is projecting on his physical appeance or if he is just faking it for some other reason.

Liap said...

I agree with what Maddie said, Montag and Mildred don't really have a relationship other than the fact that they're officially married. They never really talk or spend time together.

MollyS said...

how do you pronounce Montag?

kristenw said...

Maddie-
oooooooo thats a good thought, that he is sick with himself. That's what it seems like.

amandah said...

I was confused about the water under the bridge quote what does that mean?

nicolek said...

Josed: i was wondering te same thing. do you think he went through the same thing Montag did?

SerenaL said...

It kind of seemed like he made himself sick. The life and job that he has known and loved are suddenly changed. It seems like he is realizing that the thing he has always cherished is hurting other people.

amyw said...

I think Montag is physically and emotionally sick. He was throwing up because of nausea over what they had done to the old woman, and he's emotionally sick because of questioning things and realizing what his job really is. So I think he really is sick on two levels.

stefo said...

brianc- after seeing the woman light her own house on fire it was the last straw for him. i don't believe he could face going to work anymore after that woman killed herself because how can he work if he hates his job now? i have a question. Montag goes through all this drama realizing that he doesn't even know his wife. So why does he trust her with his secret books?

ZachH said...

i think jose might be right. It's like when you are so nervous about a test you feel sick to your stomach. I think he is soooooo nervous about taking the book, he starts feeling sick.

MollyS said...

amanda- what is the quote you are talking about?

nilec said...

I wonder what the book that he took is about. why is he so interested in it?

Lukez said...

I think that he had so many books because he liked to think. He was triggered by Clarisse forcing him to realize that he wasn't happy and then he wanted to learn more and more to realize how he could become happy.

josed said...

Yeah, maybe he did, nicolek, since he knows so much. Maybe he went on a quest for discovery but couldn't find the answers so he hates book

aaronw said...

does anyone think that Clarisse was killed by a car, but it wasn't a freak accident? As though she was "taken out"? Was there a mob or government that took her out? just thinking out loud...

Liap said...

I think that Montag always knew that something was off, but he never realized that he was so unhappy

Javonm said...

Brian- I don't think Montag is physically sick (like a cold), but I do think that he is feeling anxiety and that his emotional sickness of the loss of Clarisse is causing him to feel physically ill.

At first I had thought that Montag was maybe sick becuase of taking the book, but after reading the whole section what do people think about him being ill becuase of the books? After i finished the chapter finding out that he has done this almost 20 times before.

ZachH said...

AmandaH.

Water under the bridge means it doesn't really matter

alexd said...

Is Montag actually making himself physically sick through his thoughts?

amandah said...

I agree with Lia's agreement with maddie because when Montag tries to talk to his wife she doesn't like it and she avoids it in a way and she's very unspecific

amyw said...

I also thought it was weird how Mildred didn't even remember where her and Montag met. You'd think that if they really loved each other, they would at least remember where and how they met!

chelseas said...

I agree that Montag's appearance is matching up with his reality, like what Mark said. I also agree that Mildred was forced into it, like what Nicole said.

kristenw said...

Montag is really starting to "stick it to the man" because he is starting to question why were burning these books when people spent so longs writing them.

BrianC said...

montag is pronounced "MON-tag" Where "tag" sounds like "Tag, you're it!" and "MON" sounds like "Ya mon" like you would say in Jamaca.

alyssas said...

Chelsea S.- I was very surprised to find out that Montag had so many books too. I believed that he wasn't the type of person who would take and read books or challenge the system at all, but now I believe that he is that kind of person. I thought that Clarrise was the one to change him and make him think more, but it turns out that he was that way all along and we just didn't know that.

phoebef said...

nilec-my guess is that the book isnt about anything in particular, but it is a book. For Montag i think that its partly the thrill of challenging the system that makes him want the book.

josed said...

How do you guys think Clarisse's disappearance is affecting Montag?

MollyS said...

nile- i dont think he is especially interested in that particular book, he just wanted to read one... you know???


question: How does Beatty know about Clarisse, does this backup the idea that the government could be the firemen????

Lukez said...

Nile - I think that the book is just really interesting because it's opening up his mind. Reading the book is creating new things for him to think about. The book may not be very interesting to us, but to somebody who as never read a book it may be very very interesting.

Liap said...

Aaron- That's a good point! It's possible she was murdered or something...maybe when they talk about the kids killing each other was really the gov't or something? Just a thought...

chelseas said...

That was a good analagy that Nick mads about the magnet scenario. I also agree with Rachel about Mildred's personality, and her etaking pills to convince herself to be happy.

alexd said...

I think that if there was anything that was positive that came from Clarisses death it was that now Montag will do more about his life thatn when she was alive.

kristenw said...

nile i don't think it was that specific book that Montag was interested in. I think he is just confused at why we're burning these books.

stefo said...

jose- that was a big question for me as well!! How does Beatty know all this information if he is so against books? he reminds me of a character in the book 1984. I forget his name but he tortured people in one instance and in another he is possibly in an army working against the government. Not the same exact situation but the "bad" guy may believe what the govenment is saying but has seen the other side and controls that knowledge as well. If that makes any sense at all

nilec said...

I remember us talking about if Montag was more affected by Clarrise than anyone else could be. I think this is true because he shows alot more interest in books and is more open to thinking.

aaronw said...

back to my previous question: are the firemen like the mob? is the chief like the godfather?

BrianC said...

I don't think that Montag's apperence is in line with his reality, at least his apperence to the other firemen and even Mildred.

KatherineM said...

Alexd, I think this mental sickness that Montag has is starting to make him physically sick, as you can see when he threw up. The thought of the woman dying in the fire could be botherinng and affecting him so much, that it's putting a strain on his body.

Javonm said...

What does everyone think of Mildred's true love for Montag? Does she really love him now, considering she says that she is going to read the books with him?

What does everyone think that reference to relatives ('aunts' and 'uncles') have to do with the parlor and the wall screens in the parlor?


Is Montag going to challenge the system finally, even though he has been secrelty CTSing for a long time with all of his hidden books in the ventillator?

A couple thoughts I had about challneging the system was are the people with books actually challenging the system by just reading the books in their own homes considering that the everyday common man has to hide them to have them?

josed said...

Nile, the topic doesn't matter. He's probably never read a book, and just what defiance represents makes it important. He wants to read, it doesn't matter what.

alyssas said...

I agree with what Nicole said in class that Mildred was kind of forced into reading the books. I believe that if it was up to her, she never would have found out about the books and she would just live a "normal" life.

SerenaL said...

Montag is challenging the system by rebelling against burning books, he doesn't want to burn them anymore because it is hurting people, like the woman in the fire. I agree with kristenw when she said "He is starting to question why were burning these books when people spent so long writing them."

amyw said...

I think Clarisse was actually a bright spot in Montag's day, like he looked forward to seeing her, and they became friends. Now, since she's gone I think that he thinks that he owes it to her to figure out what's happened beyond their society and challenging the system by being different like she did. So I think her disappearance is affecting him in good and bad ways.

kristenw said...

I was so confused.... Is the reletives like a t.v. show or what??????

alexd said...

Who is happier, Montag or Mildred?

ZachH said...

Back to AaronW's comment: I don't think Clairsee's death was an accident. I think the government took her out. You don't know that she really is dead. Maybe she was taken to that place they take Mr. Mead at the end of The Pedsetrian

Liap said...

I agree with Phoebe- Mildred didn't want to take care of her sick husband because she'd rather hang out with her "family". What is up with that? That part confused me.

amandah said...

Molly-
The quote I'm talking about is...
"that's water under the bridge."
"no. not water; fire. You've ever seen saburnt house?"

ZachH said...

I think the relatives is a TV show. Like on Nick @ Nite or something.

aaronw said...

alexd- i think mildred almost because she's so spacy, and forgets so much stuff, that she has no worries, making her happier.

phoebef said...

molly- i think that Beatty knoes about Clarisse because the firemen are the ones that eliminate the problembs by burning their houses. Clarisse probably has books so the firemen may have to burn the house.

chelseas said...

In this society, everyone deals with their sorrow in a different way-some people watch people on TV, like Mildred, or they will challenge the system, like Montag.

nilec said...

Alex- i dont think either of them are truely happy. But i do think that Montag is realizing that he isnt really happy and he might do something to change that.

aaronw said...

zachh- do you think the firemen took her out? Or the gov't?

stefo said...

how does big a role does Mildred play? She could have two roles. She could be a supporter of Montag and helping him. Or she could be the betrayer and betray him to the firemen. Showing her past behavior and her stupidity i think she will end up betraying him. What does every one else think?

KatherineM said...

I think Clarisse being gone is going to affect Montag in a huge way. I think it could influence to challenge the system ever more so, because such a horrible thing happened, and no one even seems to care. I agree with Amyw. Now he might try to change things almost as a tribute to Clarisse.

SerenaL said...

I think someone asked this in the last fishbowl but I'm not sure if anyone answered it, How do they know how to read if they had never read books before?

BrianC said...

To tie into the inner circle, Why do you think that the family has fallen apart so much? Like Montag and Mildred can't even remember where or when they got married or how the kids kill each other when they get in fights.

amyw said...

Montag is challenging the system by wanting to quit his job and thinking that he'll never go back to it, and by hiding the books and wanting to figure out what's in them. By feeling outraged about the old woman and how her house was burned he is challenging the system also. Maybe he'll end up disappearing like Clarisse if people figure out what he's doing.

josed said...

Javon, I think Mildred just wants Montag to turn the books in so she goes along with the plan.

They're her relatives because she spends most of her time with them, and she thinks they're real.

I don't think he's quite ready to take the plunge into openly challenging the system: he can't even answer the door!

One question: Do you guys think that Mildred might support Montag?

alexd said...

aaronw-
i do think that the fireman are like the mob. They seems to be the 'enforcers' of the area. And the way in which they do this is forceful and unfair.

ZachH said...

When Montag says he can't remember where or when he first met her even though it was only ten years ago. Does this have to do with brainwashing maybe like we talked last time? Did something occur to make people forget stuff that happened that long ago, like a science experiment or hypnotism or something?

MollyS said...

phoebe, but Montag is a firefighter, he would have done it, and also, he would have known if her house was burnt down since it is right next to his, and lastly, he said she didn't have any books

amandah said...

Alex
I think that Montag feels more than Mildred but he keeps telling himself that he's unhappy and he wants to find a way to become happy. While Mildred is brainwashed and like Beatty said everyone is "happy".

Javonm said...

Was anyone confused on Montag's non-reaction to the fact that Captain Beatty says that Clarisse is better of dead, or do you think he is just covering up for his true feelings so not to be suspected?

I find Mildred to be a very strange woman. I know a few people on the blogs as well in the Fishbowl discussion circle have mentioned her role in this book. I think Mildred's role is changing constantly in this book and that sometimes I feel like she is a nobody who doesn't have thoughts, and is no presence to Montag and to the book. Then other times I see Mildred making sense and actually talking to Montag about true thoughts. I think Mildred might have at some point been more of a thinker in the past but becuase of the new inventions of the wall T.V.'s that she has forgotten her past and the person she used to be.

I don't remeber the exact part but didn't Mildred make reference to used to just talking with someone in her past?

amyw said...

What is the "Seashell"? I'm confused by this, Mildred always has it in her ear but I have no idea what it is!

Lukez said...

I think that Montag is really the only person challenging the system. His wife is kind of challenging the system be reading but I really don't think that she would be reading if she had a choice. She seemed content with having a full room viewing screen TV thing and being told what to do in her life all the time.

stefo said...

nick is talking about how Montag can't remember how they met. i think this is symbolic in the essence of how impersonal life now is. Weddings and love and marriage becomes something that must be done, not the very personal thing it is today.

ZachH said...

On the inner circle, Nicole just made a good question. Can people in this society feel love?

alyssas said...

Alex D.- I think that Mildred was happier because even though she od-ed, she was still living a "normal" life. She had three TV's in the parlor and has a husband so she is pretty much happy because she is meeting the standards of society. Whereas Montag has always secretely been paranoid about his books and challenging the system.

Liap said...

I agree with Chelsea- Like all of the people in this society are married and watch their parlors. I really don't think there is any love between Montag and Mildred anymore.

amyw said...

I agree with serenal, I don't know how everyone knows how to read if reading is eschewed so strongly.

aaronw said...

the firemen kind of like a corrupt police too. Sorry i watched a show on the mob last night so thats why i got the idea... hehe.

chelseas said...

I agree with Liz, about the TV being their entertainment. Also, so far, it seems like this society seems like people don't actually love each other. It appears that they have to get married to fit in in society.

ZachH said...

AmyW: a SeaShell is like an Ipod. It is an MP3 player

BrianC said...

Serena, i think that they know how to read from watching TV, or mabye they actually teach them somethings in school, like how to read in kindergarden, then, when the kids grow up more, they drop out or not try in school.

amandah said...

Kristen I'm confused about that to!
I think that maybe they call them family or relatives because they talk to eachother all the time and have become as close as family

aaronw said...

forget the corupt police... i don't think that anymore... scartch it.

kristenw said...

lia
i don't think was ever really a true love between Montag and Mildred?

Javonm said...

This sort of a minor point to the story but did anyone find it odd when Captain Beatty came in told Mildred to shut up the 'relatives' and she ran in to quiet it?

Does anyone see Montag as a former Beatty from what Beatty describes of himself and his fireman experiences in the past?

alexd said...

When the book began i thought that Montag was just like the typical fireman. But as the book progresses, we see that he thinks and feels more than any of the other fireman.

amyw said...

zachh---they didn't have MP3 players then, so how could Bradbury have predicted them?

aaronw said...

zachh, wouldn't it be like an MP17 player by now?

MollyS said...

amanda, ususally when you hear water under the bridge, you think of harmless things that have allready happened, and you cannot control, but if it was fire, then it would be like not bad, but dangerous, things that have allready happened and cannot control.

Liap said...

Montag mentioned wanting to have children, but how is wife never wants to, and i think this is because she is too busy with her "relatives" to raise a child, and that became more important to her

alyssas said...

Zach- I think the people in this society can feel love but they just don't. They are too caught up in everything that is going on around them that they knid of forget about about love and their true feelings.

amandah said...

Amy
I think the seashell is the headphone connection to the parlor it allows her to hear people talking.

SerenaL said...

stefo-
Does anyone else think that Mildred is like Lady Macbeth? I think that she will support her husband, because if she told the firemen, then it would be her house being burned as well. It also kind of seemed like she was curious about the books.

kristenw said...

amy i was wondering the same thing about the seashell, i thought it was like an i-pod or a radio

Lukez said...

aaron - I think that the firemen aren't really a corrupt group because the job they were there for was to destroy books. I don't really know if they came from the normal firemen we know today, because if thats the case it might be like a corrupt firemen group, but as far as everybody in this time knows, they aren't really corrupt.

amandah said...

Thanks zach and molly!

alexd said...

This was already brought up in the discussion but....

Can money buy happiness?

nilec said...

I think montag wants to change society. But with the way people live in his time do you think he could change it?

stefo said...

amyw- i believe that sub-consciously Montag has been challenging the system for a long time. obviously he has he collecting these books for a long time. i think a small seed of unease and unhappiness always existed in him and Clarisse and the old womans death was the catalyst that made he accept and come out with those feelings

Liap said...

Kristen- You might be right about Montag and Mildred i don't know if they ever loved each other, but they must have had some kind of attraction right?

ZachH said...

I don't think it is quit like an Ipod where you download music, but more of a person radio you can listen to on headphones. They did have radio back then so...it is some sort of music player.

aaronw said...

back to the mob idea:
since Montag is "going against the family" are they going to take him out like they possible did to Clarisse?

chelseas said...

In some respects, I think that the society sort of revolvesd around money. In some ways, the people who are the most poor are a lot of times the happiest. I think that their emotions are not shown as much ad we share our emotions today.

amyw said...

Interesting point brought up in the circle: this society is like how in every family sometimes society expects us to be "cookie-cutter", like having a mom, a dad, two kids and a dog and a nice house in suburbia. Our society is already like this, but not as extreme as in the book.

alyssas said...

Lia P.- I agree with you. And I think it's really sad that she is so obsessed with watching TV that she doesn't want to have kids because it would distract her from her TV shows.

BrianC said...

I, too, agree with Liz, that TV is for entertainment, but I also think that TV has become almost a life-style, because people like Mildred spend their whole life with the TV and acting like the actors on the shows are their family.

KatherineM said...

SerenaL, that's a really good connection! Both Mildred and Lady Macbeth seem to helping their husbands for their own personal gain. Mildred doesn't want her house to be burned, and Lady Macbeth wants to be queen.

alexd said...

nilec-
I do believe that Montag can change society. He has a very powerful position in society and he is trusted and respected by many people so i think it is possible.

Liap said...

This is just a thought; Did Montag even know he was stealing books, or did he just get caught up in the moment and couldn't bring himself to destroy them?

kristenw said...

alex-
some people think that money can buy happiness but i don't think you could ever be trully happy with just money and expensive things.

ZachH said...

AlyssaS: That's a good point. Thanks.

amandah said...

Alex
I don't think money can but you happiness. Because if you have tons of money but no family or loved ones to be with only money you get lonely. Like mark said money can buy you nice things but not happiness

aaronw said...

alexd- money cannot buy happiness... thats almost a known fact... interseting idea in the group?
are the people religious at all?

stefo said...

in the inner circle they are taking about the world in F451. America it seems it became completely isolationist. Also the essence of democracy is lost because of what Beatty said. Government wise give a man one option or none. Public information is lost and the act of voting is just a facade

phoebef said...

serenal-thats a good connection to macbeth. i agree that mildred will support montag, but i think that she wont support him in the way he wants. He wants her to read snd explore the books with him, alomst like they are reconnecting over doing this illegal action.

alyssas said...

Katherine M.- That is a really good connection from Macbeth.

amyw said...

alexd---I don't think money can buy happiness, and having material things doesn't guarantee happiness. Some people seem to think that all rich people are happy because they have all this stuff, but a lot of them are sad because their greediness causes them to not have good relationships, and like I said money doesn't bring happiness.

chelseas said...

That was a good comment that John said about the Bible being the first book to be burned. It could be the book that is the one that could cause the most controversy.

ZachH said...

LiaP. I think he just got caught up in the action of the moment. With the women wanting to stay with her books and Beatty wanting to start the fire, there was so much going on he probably didn't think twice about it.

kristenw said...

lia-

wow that's a good question. Maybe he thought that if he didn't burn all the books it would make him feel less guilty.

Lukez said...

Chelsea - I agree with you about how some of the poorest people are the happiest. Take for example clarisse. She didn't seem to have a lot of money, or thats what I assume. But I do know that she was very happy, especially compared to everybody else in this time.

Lukez said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
BrianC said...

Everyone keeps talking about how Clarisse was "taken out" or "exterminated", but I think she could've just been killed by some teenager who was just driving around or by a gang who thouhgt she was just too annoying, I don't think that she was killed by the government.

amandah said...

aaronw-
I think that they aren't religious because they want everyone to be the same so they probably just get rid of it because it could cause so many problems

stefo said...

Can the feelings of love and real happiness ever be eradicated as it is being attempted in F451? Can only feelings of loss remain? Any opinions? Could the answer go back to LOFs and that man could be all evil at his most basic self?

kristenw said...

did montag have any books before he met Clarisse????????

amyw said...

I don't think these people are religious at all. To a lot of people, religion makes them happy and secure, and isn't all religion based on a spiritual, not material, life? If these people were religious they wouldn't be so materialistic.

Liap said...

I just made a connection to LOF- The people in this society(besides Clarisse and her family) talk in short, simple sentances, like the boys in LOF. I think this may be beause they are becoming more barbaric without books to learn real facts from.

KatherineM said...

Alexd, I think money can definitely not buy happiness. Some of the richest people in the world are the most unhappy people. A while ago, I heard a story of this teenager that came from an extremely wealthy family, and he committed suicide, because he was never satisfied and happy. Even though he had so many material things, they couldn't make him content.

In this book, Mildred isn't happy with just three tv walls. She needs one more.
I don't think money and other materials goods will ever make anyone completely happy.

alyssas said...

On the inner circle they are talking about religon in the society. I believe they don't have religon in the society because differeneces in religon cause conflict, and they don't want any conflict in the society.

amandah said...

Kristen he did have books before he met Clarisse because there were always books behind the vent.

nilec said...

aaron- I think that religion plays a very small in there lives because a disagreement in religion could spark tension and that is the last thing you need in a perfect world.

MollyS said...

phoebe-
i dont think Mildred understands, she is one of those who conform, i dont think it would ever go through he head to do things like that alongside Montag. I think she would try to be there for him but eventually she would give up because she would have felt like she lost her husband

alexd said...

I have a question...


In the future, will all of these terrible things happen?

like burning books and everyone acting the same

Liap said...

Maybe they just say "omg" (I don't want to offend anyone) because it was a phrase already implanted in society?

amyw said...

kristenw---I think he did have the books before he met Clarisse because the night he met her, after he went home he was looking up at the "grille" and thinking nervously about what was there. So I think even before he met Clarisse he was sort of subconciously challenging the system.

ZachH said...

As far as the money buying happiness....I heard a quote in a movie this weekend that said, "Money isn't everything. There's power too, and money can buy that!"

Will money and power make you happier ormore depressed? Don't we hear a lot about the rich powerful celebrities falling apart?

alyssas said...

Kristen W.- I think Montag did have books before he met Clarrise because I don't think he would have had time to collect that amount of books in a couple of days.

Lukez said...

stefo - I think that they are attempting to change what happiness is in 451. They aren't getting rid of it for the public but they are trying to make it seem like happiness is being completely equal and not happy. I do think some people like Montag and Clarisse have found out what true happiness can be and thats why they are challenging this system

meganu said...

I agree with phoebef. I think Mildrid and Montag do love eachother but going against what the government wants, their love for eachother is surfacing.

SerenaL said...

Alexd-
Good question, I think that they have it imprinted into their minds that money can buy happiness. All they need is a bunch of huge tv's and the most up to date technology. I also agree with stefo that marriage is not as personal and special, it is just a fact. You grow up, you get married, you work, you watch tv, don't read, don't think, don't divert yourself from everyone else, and then you will be fine. It is just the unwritten rules.

nilec said...

alex- maybe if you live forever you'll fid out.

amandah said...

Alex
we will never really know until we get there but if you really look at some of the things in the book and look at the world today and you see some of it is statrting to happen.

kristenw said...

lia-

wow good connection!! That could be very true. I believe that is true because if you don't learn things you can't use them. In both F 451 and LOF they aren't learning or reading so you wouldn't expect them to use complex sentences.

BrianC said...

I disagree with what Luke said, that Clarisse wasn't happy. I think that she was probably the happiest person in that city because she found true happiness in discovering and thinking, whereas most everyone else finds false happiness in technology and speeding around and killing eac other just for fun.

amyw said...

alexd---I think we've already started to be like what they're saying in the book, and who knows? We could become like them, but we might not let it get to that extreme either.

KatherineM said...

I think that by reading books and having discussions, we can prevent what is happening in Farenheit 451 from actually happening. I think that was probably Bradbury's purpose in writing this book. He was encouraging us to steer away from the path of everyone being completely equal and burning books.

Liap said...

Well don't buddhists(spelling) describe happiness as letting go of everything that can dissapoint you? So I don't think money can buy you happiness.

stefo said...
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stefo said...

nilec and alexd- i don't know that in this paticular society Montag could really make a great difference because of the type of people and govenment

ZachH said...

Alex: I think Mrs. Smith is right. We are sort of already there. Flat screen Tvs, lots of pills, dumbed down activities (for dummies), books online.

amyw said...

katherinem---I agree with you. By having discussions, reading books, and actually thinking, we can stop our society from becoming what's shown in the book.

BrianC said...

I agree with the inner circle that people want things imediately, especially stories and literature.

alyssas said...

Brian C.- I totally agree with what you said! Clarisse was truly happy and most everybody else in the society was just pretending their happiness.

meganu said...

stefo-
I don't think that those feelings can be taken away. Like we were talking about in the inner circle earlier, those are the basic emotions that no one can get rid of. No matter how hard anyone tries, those feelings can't be avoided.

aaronw said...

what does everyone think about the harry potter stuff?

Lukez said...

I think that Montag could maybe make a difference. He is a firemen and he could be very influencial because of his postition in society

kristenw said...

huh...if montag had books before he met clarisse that means that he was curious about books on his own. so did clarisse just give him the courage to stand up for what he believes???

Liap said...

Alex-
I think that as long as books are not burned,people will keep reading them, which will keep them from being outlawed.

Liap said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
alexd said...

Is there any way to stop the downward spiral of society in real life? What can we do?

stefo said...

These real life connections are freaking me out!! I love Harry Potter and the movies take out so much. Movies give you an image and ideas and thoughts. You can't come up with your own ideas when it is already presented to you

MollyS said...

amen to that stef!

amandah said...

I agree with lia
There will be people who will always continue to read them.

ZachH said...

I agree with BrianC. We live in a fast paced world. We want things now. I think that even contributes to how stressed out we are sometimes, we can't process how fast the world is moving.

amyw said...

liap---I have a friend whose mom is Buddhist, and they believe that letting go of all material things and all desires will make you happy. If you don't want anything and you don't have anything, you're truly happy because if you have even a few things, they believe that you'll end up wanting more and you'll never be happy.

alyssas said...

I agree with what peoplt are saying in the inner circle.- A lot of what is going on in the book, in caused by people being way too overprotective of each other and each others' feelings.

nilec said...

zach- i agree with you. reading this books shows me how fast we are heading toward everyone in our world not thinking and being just like the people in the book. yet we look at the book as being so horrible, even though we aren't really that much different.

Lukez said...

aaronw - I think that harry potter is just an example of how a book can be totally gutted and changed into a movie. This makes it so much less meaning full to the person that reads it. I also think that it takes all the personal kind of conversational aspect away from the story.

meganu said...

I agree with kristenw. I think Montag was curious about books and was going against the government for years. When he met Clarisse, he saw that she wasn't afraid to challenge the system which gave him the courage to reveal his possesion of books.

stefo said...

chelseas- i agree with you. Society does revolve around money. What is money? Just paper. It can made by the millions. why does it have to have such power and be distributed in the way it is?

alexd said...

I think that when a book is made into a movie, it makes people not want to think for themselves because that takes less effort than actually creating your own picture and ideas. Its like your thoughts are handed to you, not earned.

amyw said...

I agree with everyone who said this that everyone wants to simplify everything now! Everything is made really simple so everything can understand it, and it's almost like society wants us to be dumb because, after all, you'll still be able to understand stuff even if you're dumb!

Liap said...

I think one of the main reasons we have so many stress pills is because people always want to do everything fast-High speed internet, faster cars, faster cooking-people have boring lives and they want to make them interesting, so everything has to be fast so that we have a reason to be stressed and create drama.

alyssas said...

I saw the same theme in this book that several other people saw- VIOLENCE. The kids in this book are going out and killing each other and they think that it's ok because their is no consiquence for their actions.

chelseas said...

This society is a very politically correct society in some ways, but in others, it is not even moral at all. Especially because all of the children are so violent. This has to do a lot with moral values.

BrianC said...

Tying into the thought of violence is bad...

My uncle once told me of a prank he pulled on his 4 year old cousin. He had a bag of katchup under his shirt and he asked his cousin to shoot him with his fingers. so his cousin did and my uncle popped the bag and acted like he died with blood everywhere and everthing, and his cousin was happy and stuff and he went around telling everyone haw he shot my uncle.

So, mabye there's good reason in teaching kids that violence is bad.

ZachH said...

Should movies and games be banned? They contain the same elements as banned books. They romote violence. Should they be banned?

Liap said...

Alyssa-
Back to my other comment, I think the kids just need drama and violence is what they're being taught.

amyw said...

It's weird about how in the 50s they predicted school shootings! Our society is slowly becoming like what's in the book.

kristenw said...

magan u-

yaaaaaa you totally made it clear of what i thought(you put it into clear words). So Montag has been challenging the system for a long time then clarisse gave him the courage to go even farther.

stefo said...

everyone is talking about kids and violence today. i use this book for connections all time tbut i see another connection in 1984. the kids are monsters. and the parents are proud of them and want them to grow up to be killers. most kids turned their parents in for fake crimes. This could be a reality in our future. now i am really freaked out!

alyssas said...

Lia P.- I agree with what you said that they are having so many problems because they are making things so much more dramatic by making everything go faster.

Javonm said...

Having a little trouble getting a word in the circle... I think basically what Bradbury is trying to tell us is that life is too sophisticated for our race and our generation. A connection that Mrs. Smith had made is that a very very small portion of us were actually able to depict a shakespearean piece without using a modern text helper. I think that we are losing so many historical amazing things becuase we are so caught up in the future and life in front of us. I have a friend that only wears Jordan clothing becuae of how it exspensive it is and the way he looks having that expensive of clothing. His sister... text 14000 times in one month. Just the multitude of that number is unreal that is about 467 messages a day. It just shows some of us don't even talk on the phone anymore let alone in person. I can talk to someone on text for a long time and have a lot of things to talk about, but even I have trouble talking anymore on the phone becuase I can't think on my feet that quick and it is much easier for me to text.

Lukez said...

I think that the fact that nobody is really sad is something that the government thinks is more important then any body being happy. They are sacrificing anybody being happy just to make sure nobody is being sad.

meganu said...

If the government is trying to create a utopia, why don't they do anything about all the violent children?

alexd said...

Brianc-
was his cousin kidding or was he really trying to show off that he 'shot' your uncle?

ZachH said...

AmyW: You're right. It is really erie.

BrianC said...

Why does the government send the kids off to school so young?

KatherineM said...

People today are not having to think for themselves as much as in the past. I could really see that bringing society to a downfall.

nilec said...

Like maddie said, in school young kids learn how to share and communicate and like skills. this is true but I think the things they learn go to the back of there head and what they focus on that age is guns and cowboys and indians. what i'm trying to say is that it would be very difficult to change the mindset of young kids.

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