Why did the girl have such a great impression on Montag? Was she different than other girls, or was he just surprised to meet someone so late at night?
There seems to be so much about heat and flames and fire. But i gues that makes sense because it is called Fahrenheit 451 which i'm hypothesizing has something to do with either fire temperaturte or simply him helmet number.
maddie- i had the same question. It seems so weird that Montag is fascinated with her... creepy??? also, how come she has such ghost like features? that's weird also... and kristen- if your a presenter tommorrrow (which you probably are if you're on this) you should ask the ppl what they think of it, bcuz i had the same observation too... fire is a major part so far... what else could 451 mean by the way?
Ok, I've got a question and I couldn't resist posting it, and I think this is the right place, so here goes: Why are so many people downing pills like potato chips? That machine guy said he gets nine to ten calls a night. Very Creepy. Oh, and 451 is the temperature at which SOMETHING HAPPENS. Guess, from what you know about the book.
Jose- People are just popping pills like it's candy or something because everyone is unhappy. After the "incident" Montag and his wife were realizing they weren't happy. And, like Aaron and Maddie said, Montag didn't really think about it until this Clarisse came along... which is really weird.
I agree with everyone who thought it was creepy that people are just popping pills right and left, and that they're probably doing it because they're unhappy. But why are they so unhappy? What causes the unhappiness? Maybe we'll find out later in the book.
I thought it was also weird that Montag had never questioned anything or thought about his unhappiness until Clarisse came along, it's like he just convinced himself he was happy or something. He could have gotten mad at her for questioning his beliefs and ideals, but for some reason he didn't, maybe because he knew how true it was deep down, so he just didn't want to argue.
I think that the fire has a lot to do with his job about how he burns things. It is obviously exciting to him that things burn because he was talking about that smile that he gets from burning things that seems never to go away. I also think that the smile might have gone away from the girls questioning.
I read online that 451 is the temperature at which paper burns.
I found it amusing that Ray Bradbury had Clarisse say that her uncle was arrested for being a pedestrian. It was neat that he made a reference to the short story we read last week, well at least that sure seems like what he was doing.
i agree that all the fire references are going to be important, i also noticed what Katherine did, about the pedestrian, i absolutely agree that it is the same person, especially since their house was very bright and he lives with his niece, not his wife. I think the television situation is the same. There is no doubt to me that this is a Pedestrian reference.
1.) I agree that the uncle is most likly the character from The Pedestrian. Has any one seen any major parallels to Harrison Bergeron?
2.) Doesn't it seem odd that the girl has so much knowlege about the past that Montag doesn't have (such as fireman stopping fires instead of starting them)? How do you think she got this knowlege?
3.) I think Happiness has seemed to play a role in the story so far. Montag seems to relize that even though he fits in, this girl who is some what different is happier than he is. Why do you think this brief encounter made such an effect on his outlook of his own life?
Okay, I have got to say that Clarisse is definitely challenging the system. Although we don't know a lot about the society in Fahrenheit 451, it is clear that her behavior of taking the time to appreciate the simple things in life isn't normal. Heck, some people wouldn't qualify that as normal even by today's standards. She also takes the time to examine and actually get to know people. Montag seems surprised by this; probably he's thinking that this girl understands him even better than his own wife. She also demonstrates challenging the system by asking Montag if he reads any of the books that he burns, even though that is against the law. She was interested in his actions, and seemed disappointed when he didn't share her views on challenging the system. So far, the relationship between Montag and Clarisse looks like a turning point in Montag's view of his life.
What symbols are you starting to see in the story? Such as fire or the salamander. What do you think they mean?
Do you think it is possible for a person to change you thoughts and perception of your life in such a short amount of time like Clarisse did to Montag? If so, what kind of person does it take to do that?
What makes someone happy? Is it possible to truely happy when you can't think or do anything for yourself?
I think that Clarisse is the ultimate 'system challenger' if that makes sense. It is amazing that she could affect Montag so immensely in the little time they met. Especially since she is so young.
I agree that this story is very related to the Padestrian. It is interesting to see the resembelemce to the two storys and it is interesting to connect the two.
I agree with Alex D. Clarisse must be really powerful because she was able to make such a huge impact on Montag even in the very little amount of time that they had known eachother.
I think that sybolism is important in this book already. Like the pedestrain,when the lights are on in the house i think it represents the light of knowledge. when montag clses the curtain he is blocking out the light of knowledge, and new ideas. he is frightened of what might happen if he thinks about his situation. by ignoring everything, he is keeping himself happy.
The pedesrtian was written by the same person. There were many symbols that make them similar. When the uncle's house is lit up the girl's house is also lit up. It touched Montags heart and reminded him of a different time where he was happy with his family
Maddief, I think that it was a combination of both. Clarisse seems to be different than everyone else, and she certainly made Montag stop and think and examine things. Also, my impression is that it would be quite uncommon to meet someone out walking so late at night.
Going to what Jose just said: He said that Clarisse's family wasn't structured because it wasn't a father-mother-daughter family. He said that it was Clarisse, her mother, and her uncle. I thought the father lived there too. I thought in her household, there was Clarisse, her mother, her father, and her uncle was living with them.
I think that Clarisse can see through the mask, and that she can really sense people. She knew that Montag was a good person, so she was not afraid of him.
AaronW - I think that in this time period she is unconventional, but if they were all in this time period then Clarissa would be the only normal one, and everybody else would be different.
My questions as a presenter for those on the outside
1. Why doyou think the title of "fireman" is associated with negativity?
2. What are some ways Clarisse is challenging the system.
3. What similarities do you see between the challenders in the 2 short stories and this, and what similarities/differences do, you see between the common man in these books?
4. Does Clarisse appearance, have anything to do with her personality?
5. Does anyone see any differences/similarities, between Goerge's wife in Harrison Bergeron and Guy's wwife in Farhenhiet 451?
6. Clarisse's psychiatrist meeting's, does anyone think it is odd that they are discouraging her nromalities of walking and thinking?
Alright, has anyone seen the movie, Idiocracy? I think you can relate this book to that movie (with less cursing, stupidity and sexual humor). Like in the movie, everyone forgot what it was like to have a happy life, or for it to have meaning.
1.In the book Clarisse is described with many adjectives that use white or pure references. Who does Clarisse represent in the story and what predictions can be made from the other two short stories we read? What do you think will happen to Clarisse? 2. The mantra of the govenment is for people to be happy. Without books to offend people or to make them think there is less unhappiness in the world. But it seems that unhappiness is plenty abound. Why do you think that is? Why isn't the government's idea working? Also why haven't people realized that they are unhappy and done something about it?
Alright, has anyone seen the movie, Idiocracy? I think you can relate this book to that movie (with less cursing, stupidity and sexual humor). Like in the movie, everyone forgot what it was like to have a happy life, or for it to have meaning.
aaronw- i dont really agree with the fact that her family is "unconventional", i dont think that is the right word for them. Maybe different or rebelious.
What other words should we use to describe her family?
phoebef---I agree with you that symbolism is important already. It's scary how closely this is related to the short story the Pedestrian because lights were used as symbolism there too...
I think that the Pedestrian is very similar to this book. I also see how this makes sense, they were written by the same person and authors have a specific type of writing a lot of times and so sometimes you could be able to tell who wrote something just by their writing style.
I find it pretty interesting that the "normal" people of that time don't slow down enough to notice things like the dew on the grass, the man in the moon, or even the sights and sounds of nature, like life is already going too fast and it will keep getting faster until no one has time for anything but surviving.
I thought this section of the book was very thought provoking in the sense that people would try to kill themselves by over dosing on sleeping pills. I dont know why someone would do this but obviously they were so un-happy that they would. Also, Montag is very suprised when Clarrise says that she is seventeen and crazy. It is not just that she said that but they way that she appears to Montag. She is not affraid of him and this suprises him. I am a little confused about that burning of books. What is the story behind this?
okay molly, just talking out loud i guess... another question that has been asked is why the firemen are sorta portrayed as bad ppl... what are everyones thoughts?
Clarisse and her family are the forces that are challenging the system. Clarisse's society is supposed to be a utopia. Clarisse is a free thinker and walks around alone at night. Her family has all of their lights on in their house and they just talk. Montag thinks that its very strange because he is so used to his utopia which is a dystopia.
I also agree that the pedestrian has to do with this book and that Clarisse's uncle is the pedestrian. I agree with alexd that Clarisse is the "ultimate" system challenger because she thinks things through and is curious. She also gets other people thinking.
I agree with what Lizc said about the firemen being the arson starters. I think, like Mollys, that the people aren't scared about the firemen so much as the fires.
I have a question. How are people with books discovered? Is there something watching them. Are the telescreens and the "families" watching them and reporting them?
I think Clarisse made the impact because Montag has never seen someone who challenges the system. Everyone is the same, and she is almost the opposite. It surprises Montag that someone can think so much because people usually don't think at all for themselves. Clarrise is like Leonard Mead from the Pedestrian, thinking for himself and walking alone at night just for the heck of it.
I agree with what Rachel said- Clarisse's family is conventional, it's just that in this modern society they are seen as unconventional because they notice the simple things in life while everybody else forgot about the simple things and got caught up in technology.
I think that conventional things are based on what is happenening at the time. In this book, they are unconventional, and might be thought of as old fashioned. Clarisses family is living in our times and this is peceved as weird as scary. Where as if someone was living as Montag is today they would be thought of as unconventional.
I think the salamander is a reference to the patch on his uniform. The fire seems to symbolize distruction or or forgetting. When he burns the books, they are destroyed and everything in those books is all forgotten in the past.
I thought it was really strange how Clarisse changed Montag is such a short time, but i think it does happen. You have to ask people the right questions to get them out of their comfort zone. Then they will realize who they are.
I think people in our time are happy with family and friends. I think relationships make people happy. When you are laughing and joking with your family and friends, you feel happy. I think Montag is unhappy since it doesn't seem like people have relationships in the future.
Aaron w.-I dont think that the fireman ar epertrayed necessarily as bad people, but more of people that have a lot of power. They can be seen a frightening without being bad.
alexd- another word you could use is anti-communist, since nick just said the community is communist... anyone else have any words besides "unconventional"?
well aaron, fire itself isnt usually seen as a positive thing, and so todays firemen get rid of the fire, whn these 451 firemen are starting it, making them worth being scared of...
I think that the Firemen are seen as scary people because of the power that people see in fire. But mostly I think this fear is irrational and Clarissa can see that the fear isn't justified because she is such a down to earth girl.
jose- I believe that the people are downing the sleeping pills because they are unhappy and can't sleep. As we noticed from Macbeth sleep is where secrets come out. Everyone appears happy on the outside but how they are unable to sleep show that they aren't and that something is wrong
Do you think that this book predicts something about the future in a way? How can you make connections to the ways we are acting today? Are there any situations that are mimilar to the story of Farenhiet 451?
Going back to what everyone said about a lot of the characters popping pills: This just shows that Montag's society is a dystopia. Everything is very structured but not a lot of the citizens are happy. Even when Clarisse asked Montag if he was happy and he replied yes, he still went home and thought it over and realized that he was unhappy.
Stef O.- That is a very good question and observation. If the telescreens aren't "reporting" them then I think they could also just go through people's houses and search for books. I also had a question. Why are they even burning books?
I thought that the comment that Nick said was very true, ahen he said that burning the books reminded him of cocmmunism. I thought the exact same thing.
Does anyone know why they are burning the books? Is it only certain books, or all of the books? Are the documents saved else where or is the history deleted permanently?
I have a REALLY BIG question. Why are books not allowed? It's just paper and ink for goodness sakes', and is this a job that can actually be called a job?????
Clarisse's family seems a lot more different than other families in Fahrenheit 451. Montag and Mildred never talk, and yet here their neighbors are just sitting down and spending time together. I think that it makes Montag feel lonely. As creepy as this may sound, I wonder if Montag would rather spend time with Clarisse than Mildred. Their marriage is going down hill; probably has something to do with the fact that she sits around popping pills. Montag likes being with Clarisse because she understands him and is willing to talk to him.
Montag says that he burns books, and firemen never used to put out fires. Does he actually believe that, or is he lying to a naive little girl?(Not that Clarisse is naive, she's really clever.)Montag burns books because it is his job and he enjoys it, but has he ever read a book? I think that behind the ventillator he is hiding a book that he was supposed to burn. Montag would already be challenging the system in this case, and I think that Clarisse is going to convince him to rebel even more. She is obviously different from other girls in that time period, and she might even be qualified as abnormal in today's society.
Elisabeth c- I could see how this book could predict the future in some ways, but I think that some of it is alittle far fetched, It makes me wonder if our society is sort of collapsing into something completly different?
serenal Her uncle was arrested because he was being different and they don't want people to be different, they don't want anyone to challenge the system.
Going back to what Rachel said, do you think its possible to even be truely happy if you can't even think or make you own choices? Are you even really living if you just following a crowd all the time?
i think it represents the fireman trying to escape the fire he is using, and that maybe he is like the books, a victim, but i think we wont really understand it more untill the end of the book
I like what javon said about Bradbury warning us about the future. Also i think it's interesting how he compares this world to the present world were in right now.
I agree with what Clarao said about writing books and how they are a way to express ourselves. If there aren't any books, people can't discuss things, or to express their feelings.
molly, the firemen could be scared of the government. the government obviously were the first ppl to ban books and decide to burn them. anyone have any comments?
I think that this book is in a way predicting the future. Much like the pedestrian i think that Bradbury is trying to show that in the future, person to person communication will be lost due technology. Our knowledge will eentually become our demise. we will loose the ability to think outside of the box, and therefore will not challenge the system. It is the perfect dystopia. we will become so intelegent, and know so much about each other, we will loose the knoledge of interpersonal skills as well as the simple comforts of today.
I think the title, The Hearth and The Salamandor, is intersting. obviously the salamandor is on Montags patch. A heart is like the ledge by a fire place. It's kind of interesting that there is so much reference to fire and he cse the title The Hearth and The Salamandor.
Do you think Montag has a happy marrage? Is this why he is so unhappy?
I like Chelsea's observation that Bradbury is saying that books are a luxury, even tough we don't notice it. Books are a way to express your feelings and thoughts so they don't want them in this society because they are trying to make everyone think the same things and prevent people from having opinions.
Serena, I totally agree with you. Clarisse's uncle seems just as peculiar as her, and we've already seen that Clarisse challenges the system by thinking and considering things. Most of these ideas seem to come from her uncle; I hope that he comes into the story.
Nick said something is the discussion that I agree with. I see alot of similarites between this book and the book 1984. this book was written around the era of the cold war when communism was a horrifiying reality. many books on civil rights were spouted out in definace. The future being described was a very possible future and it scared alot of people.
I agree with waht Clara said in the outside circle about how books are a way of expressing yourself and since the want people to be the same they are burning the books. If people read the books they will start thinking and might want to challenge tthe system.
JavonM 1. I think Clarisse associates the title of "fireman" with negativity, because she seems like someone that would love books. We don't really know how anyone else feels about firemen yet.
2. Clarisse is staying away from the crowd. She likes to be outside, take walks, and talk with her family, while everyone else sits inside and watches tv.
6. Clarisse having to meet with a psychiatrist reminded me of Harrison Bergeron and how everyone had to be equal. The psychiatrist seems to be wanting to stop Clarisse's way of thinking, so that she will be the same as everyone else.
phoebe- i don't think this is predicting the future because the only way this could work would be a communist takeover... and I don't think China and Cuba are looking to invade us anytime soon....
I agree with Alyssa. I think books are a good way to express yourself. I think that is why they won't be censored like we talked about in class yesterday.
The racism in the time could also reflect ideas of the book because clarsse and her family could be like the one African American family on the street and how they are thought to be so different but in reality they are normal, just like Clarisse's family is normal to our standards.
The walls are like huge televisions I think, that was my impression. The wife seems kind of spoiled if she is willing to take a third of her husbands pay just to buy one of these. Was she in a play? Do they act out the plays using these wall TV things?
ZachH- I believe that Montag is trully unhappy because he is not like anyone else who he lives with. He wants to challenge the system but i dont think he has enough courage. But i also agree with him that his marriage is also making him unhappy.
meganu- I think that the walls are like televisions or something. it reminds me of the movie Faliure to Launch. in the moie there is a cafe in which one wall is covered in screens they have different scenery on them. i think that the walls are a sort of delusion that you see and possibly experience other places and environments from you own home. i think that is the basic idea.
Javonm - to answer the second question, I think that she just like to slow down and be normal, She likes to hike and collect animals, I don't think that anybody else could see the joy in this.
Zach H.- I don't think Montag is in a happy marriage. I think that his marriage was happy at one point but then something happened and now they aren't happy. Bradbury hasn't told us what exactly happened to make him unhappy with his marriage, only that Montag wishes that his wife's memory could be erased or changed.
clara just said that "they dont want them to think for themselves." Who is they. Where is the line between the common man and the higher archy? The government isn't very cleary defined in this book. Has the whole of soctiey deluded themselves into thinking that this type of society is good and right or is there a mythical all-knowing man who has the inteligence needed and keeps the world as it is in the book to control the power. or does the government truly believe what they enforce. If that makes any sense
A lot of times, it is said that children show a different perspective on life. She could see through his mask, and knew that he was really a good person on the inside.
alexd I also agree with you that challenging the system is somewhat like going against peer pressure. Because I guess the people who want you to be a certain way or just the same as everyone else are pressuring you or are trying to control you and your life. Challenging the system is striving to be different.
luke---I agree that no one else could enjoy the things she does. The pace of life moves so fast and everyone is so obsessed with technology that they can't enjoy simple things anymore.
Johnb - I think that freedom of speech is totally gone in this story. I think that maybe the government totally took away the freedom of speech in order to make everybody equal, like in Harrison Bergeron.
MeganU- I think that they were saying they already had three televisions that took up the entire wall, and Montag's wife wanted another one. This is so important to Montag's wife, because tv seems to be pretty much all she has.
i can connect this book to The Giver because in The Giver the people aren't independant and dont think for themselves. The one person in this book who thinks differently is Clarisse and Jonas in The Giver has the same ability.
i agree with Zackh that the title the Hearth and the Salamander is interesting because a Hearth is where you would have a fire in your home, like in F451 how they burn down the homes that have books; the Salamander was thought to be invenerable to fire and it also happens to be the simbol of the firemen, like they're unaffected by fire, and yet, Guy is affected, it gives him a false sence happiness, which Clarisse later rouses his suspision of himself and how happy he actually is.
Do people who don't rebel, do they really understand what's going on? I mean people are like, okay with this. Do they ever question their current ways?
I agree with Josed that cause and effect are a big theme in this book. Like Rachel said, Montag is going to war with himself in a sense. This could relate to some states, or countries going to war in real life.
I agree with what Nick said in the discussion, it seems likeMantag was perfectly happy with his life up untill the point when he met Clarisse and then she showed him a whole new side of life and be begins to wonder about what he does and if he should be happy with his life or not, is there really any happiness with what he does everyday?
serenal i think that his wife is an actress, and it is very possible, or even likly that her performances are shown on the "walls". If this is the case wouldnt she know that the plays are not real and then why would she say, "If we had the fourth wall, this room wouldnt be our room at all, but all kins of exotics people's rooms." it seems to me that she is an actress, but that the tv walls are used to sow different place sort of like web cam rather than an actually tv
kristenw- I agree with you about the smoking thing. It almost gives me a feeling like this book is taking place in the past. I dont picture people smoking in the future.
kristen---I thought that was weird too! It's just like maybe they don't value health so much...even though he was making Montag's wife better, it was weird about the smoking so I think it means that no one really cares about their health, also because of all of the pill-popping...
O ok that makes sense. Ya I don't know if she was in a play or not. All I got out of it was that she recieves these scripts and acts them out with other people. I don't know if they actually act them out for the public to see. I thought her reaction to doing improv was really strange. I can see that they don't have very much free will and they can't think on their own because her improv lines are so simple. She just gives a simple response to the other character's lines. She gets totally excited over that too!
Montag is the true protector of is wife. She does not help him though, like Lady Macbeth did. She is sort of like the wife in Harrison Bergeron. His wife has no position of power.
There are some different covers of this book but the cover with the man made of newspaper on fire is also a symbol. It shows that he's burning himself because the pages of books are expressions of people and they are burning indivuality. I think Montag is going to realize that burning literature is wrong so he "wears" the pages so he can be a unique individual and challenge the system.
I think thats a good point. Books are a way authors express themselves and if books are banned, it takes away their rights.
It also takes away freedom of the press. Freedom of the Press gives citizens the right to know how things work and what is going on in the world. By destroying and banning books, it takes away this right.
This book was written more then 50 years ago. Do you think there were problems with the government then that may have led to this situation in our future, or have those problems been resolved and our societies future will be a controlled eutopia? or dystopia as the case may be?
I agree with LouiseB and Nick. It seems like Clarisse changed his life and the way he thinks about things in just a matter of minutes, and I think she will continue to have a big effect on him as the book goes on.
i think its strange that no one in the story beside Montag,Clarisse and her family, And Mildred have been mentioned. i think this is so that we will focus more on the ideas of these characters
I'm really confused about the thing with the vent in the hall...why did Montag keep stopping and looking up at it? It probably means something but I don't know what.
I thought Jose made an interesting point when he said that Bradbury has a major theme of using cause and effect in his writings. Like after the jets fly by his house, he starts freaking out because his wife almost kills herself by overdosing.
I agree with what Nile said about connecting it to the Giver. In the Giver there were no colors, everything was just gray and in Fahreneit 451 color seems to be a big symbol like how he would refer to Clarisse as always being white.
Phoebef - I think that the three walls were the TV. Kind of like it was a play TV show that was going on all around the them. And if the fourth wall was there then the TV would totally enclose them and the entire room would be a TV. So there really wouldn't be a room there at all, just a giant TV.
louiseb- i think that montag began happy with his job, career, and life in general. I think that a fireman is seen as a glamorous job, much like being an actor or actress in present day. He probably mariied his wife and loved her at the begining, but it seems like he barly knows her. He know is bored with his life, and realizes that he isnt really happy
Montag's mask of burning books and enjoying fire is kind of like Jack's paint mask. He couln't kill the pig until he donned it; maybe Montag won't be able to burn books now because Clarisse took away his defense. Also, in both LOF and Fahrenheit 451, fire seems to represent power and control.
Montag's mask of burning books and enjoying fire is kind of like Jack's paint mask. He couln't kill the pig until he donned it; maybe Montag won't be able to burn books now because Clarisse took away his defense. Also, in both LOF and Fahrenheit 451, fire seems to represent power and control.
alexd- Idiocracy (although a very crude movie) is a very scary thought. It's about some army generals who are frozen and then wake up 500 years later and the world is a huge mess. No one knows how to do anything exept be lazy. They don't even know how to make plants grow. It's related to Fahrenheit 451 for the loss of knowledge of what everything used to be
I agree with Maddief, that the masks represent power, but I think that Montag wants to find/create a new mask for himself, but he keeps denying it. I predict that later in the book, F451, he will come to terms with himself and see that he needs to break out of the rut everyone, but Clarissa and her family, is in, or else they wouldn't have a story.
I think the reason that books seem to be hated in this society is because some of them really challenge the system and make people think. Someone said this in the discussion and I forgot who it was but they said that books let the authors express themselves and teach everyone to think for themselves, and this is the last thing this society seems to want. It seems like everyone in this book is so empty-headed and technology-obsessed.
Everybody keeps asking about if Montag is happy with his life and his marriage and I just kind of noticed something as I was reading. It seems to me like Montag was doing fine on his way home, even with Clarisse questioning him, but when he got home his spirits seemed to just drop. Almost like he didn't want to be at home and deal with his wife, whereas before he came home he was perky and happy because he got to burn books. Does it seem to anyone else like there is a big gap between Montag and his wife?
alyssas---I agree that there's a gap between Montag and his wife. I think maybe they used to love each other, but something happened and they grew apart, almost like we saw with Macbeth and Lady Macbeth in Macbeth. It's actually really sad that they're husband and wife but don't even appear to be affectionate or love each other that much. Someone said in the discussion today that even though Montag doesn't even seem to love his wife, he was concerned after her pill-popping incident because she's really the only thing he has and he didn't want to lose her. Even though their society seems really cold and everything, he still needs someone, even if he doesn't even love her very much. Sorry that kinda went off topic :-)
144 comments:
Hi. Test, test...
Why did the girl have such a great impression on Montag? Was she different than other girls, or was he just surprised to meet someone so late at night?
There seems to be so much about heat and flames and fire. But i gues that makes sense because it is called Fahrenheit 451 which i'm hypothesizing has something to do with either fire temperaturte or simply him helmet number.
maddie- i had the same question. It seems so weird that Montag is fascinated with her... creepy??? also, how come she has such ghost like features? that's weird also...
and kristen- if your a presenter tommorrrow (which you probably are if you're on this) you should ask the ppl what they think of it, bcuz i had the same observation too... fire is a major part so far... what else could 451 mean by the way?
Ok, I've got a question and I couldn't resist posting it, and I think this is the right place, so here goes: Why are so many people downing pills like potato chips? That machine guy said he gets nine to ten calls a night. Very Creepy. Oh, and 451 is the temperature at which SOMETHING HAPPENS. Guess, from what you know about the book.
Jose-
People are just popping pills like it's candy or something because everyone is unhappy. After the "incident" Montag and his wife were realizing they weren't happy. And, like Aaron and Maddie said, Montag didn't really think about it until this Clarisse came along... which is really weird.
I agree with everyone who thought it was creepy that people are just popping pills right and left, and that they're probably doing it because they're unhappy. But why are they so unhappy? What causes the unhappiness? Maybe we'll find out later in the book.
I thought it was also weird that Montag had never questioned anything or thought about his unhappiness until Clarisse came along, it's like he just convinced himself he was happy or something. He could have gotten mad at her for questioning his beliefs and ideals, but for some reason he didn't, maybe because he knew how true it was deep down, so he just didn't want to argue.
I think that the fire has a lot to do with his job about how he burns things. It is obviously exciting to him that things burn because he was talking about that smile that he gets from burning things that seems never to go away. I also think that the smile might have gone away from the girls questioning.
I read online that 451 is the temperature at which paper burns.
I found it amusing that Ray Bradbury had Clarisse say that her uncle was arrested for being a pedestrian. It was neat that he made a reference to the short story we read last week, well at least that sure seems like what he was doing.
i agree that all the fire references are going to be important, i also noticed what Katherine did, about the pedestrian, i absolutely agree that it is the same person, especially since their house was very bright and he lives with his niece, not his wife. I think the television situation is the same. There is no doubt to me that this is a Pedestrian reference.
1.) I agree that the uncle is most likly the character from The Pedestrian. Has any one seen any major parallels to Harrison Bergeron?
2.) Doesn't it seem odd that the girl has so much knowlege about the past that Montag doesn't have (such as fireman stopping fires instead of starting them)? How do you think she got this knowlege?
3.) I think Happiness has seemed to play a role in the story so far. Montag seems to relize that even though he fits in, this girl who is some what different is happier than he is. Why do you think this brief encounter made such an effect on his outlook of his own life?
Okay, I have got to say that Clarisse is definitely challenging the system. Although we don't know a lot about the society in Fahrenheit 451, it is clear that her behavior of taking the time to appreciate the simple things in life isn't normal. Heck, some people wouldn't qualify that as normal even by today's standards. She also takes the time to examine and actually get to know people. Montag seems surprised by this; probably he's thinking that this girl understands him even better than his own wife. She also demonstrates challenging the system by asking Montag if he reads any of the books that he burns, even though that is against the law. She was interested in his actions, and seemed disappointed when he didn't share her views on challenging the system. So far, the relationship between Montag and Clarisse looks like a turning point in Montag's view of his life.
What symbols are you starting to see in the story? Such as fire or the salamander. What do you think they mean?
Do you think it is possible for a person to change you thoughts and perception of your life in such a short amount of time like Clarisse did to Montag? If so, what kind of person does it take to do that?
What makes someone happy? Is it possible to truely happy when you can't think or do anything for yourself?
I think that Clarisse is the ultimate 'system challenger' if that makes sense. It is amazing that she could affect Montag so immensely in the little time they met. Especially since she is so young.
I agree that this story is very related to the Padestrian. It is interesting to see the resembelemce to the two storys and it is interesting to connect the two.
So what does everyone think about the fact the girls family is "unconventional" like Josed said in the circle??
I have a question why does Clarisse effect Montag so much?
Also why doesn't Montag's wife remember that she overdosed on sleeping pills?
So what does everyone think about the fact the girls family is "unconventional" like Josed said in the circle??
I agree with Alex D. Clarisse must be really powerful because she was able to make such a huge impact on Montag even in the very little amount of time that they had known eachother.
I think that sybolism is important in this book already. Like the pedestrain,when the lights are on in the house i think it represents the light of knowledge. when montag clses the curtain he is blocking out the light of knowledge, and new ideas. he is frightened of what might happen if he thinks about his situation. by ignoring everything, he is keeping himself happy.
I had a question about Clarisse's uncle. Why was he arrested for being a pedestrian? I don't understand that.
The pedesrtian was written by the same person. There were many symbols that make them similar. When the uncle's house is lit up the girl's house is also lit up. It touched Montags heart and reminded him of a different time where he was happy with his family
Maddief, I think that it was a combination of both. Clarisse seems to be different than everyone else, and she certainly made Montag stop and think and examine things. Also, my impression is that it would be quite uncommon to meet someone out walking so late at night.
Going to what Jose just said: He said that Clarisse's family wasn't structured because it wasn't a father-mother-daughter family. He said that it was Clarisse, her mother, and her uncle. I thought the father lived there too. I thought in her household, there was Clarisse, her mother, her father, and her uncle was living with them.
aaron, i dont think the way jose describes the unconventional family is as crutial as the challenging the system portion of an unconventional family
I think that Clarisse can see through the mask, and that she can really sense people. She knew that Montag was a good person, so she was not afraid of him.
AaronW - I think that in this time period she is unconventional, but if they were all in this time period then Clarissa would be the only normal one, and everybody else would be different.
My questions as a presenter for those on the outside
1. Why doyou think the title of "fireman" is associated with negativity?
2. What are some ways Clarisse is challenging the system.
3. What similarities do you see between the challenders in the 2 short stories and this, and what similarities/differences do, you see between the common man in these books?
4. Does Clarisse appearance, have anything to do with her personality?
5. Does anyone see any differences/similarities, between Goerge's wife in Harrison Bergeron and Guy's wwife in Farhenhiet 451?
6. Clarisse's psychiatrist meeting's, does anyone think it is odd that they are discouraging her nromalities of walking and thinking?
Alright, has anyone seen the movie, Idiocracy? I think you can relate this book to that movie (with less cursing, stupidity and sexual humor). Like in the movie, everyone forgot what it was like to have a happy life, or for it to have meaning.
1.In the book Clarisse is described with many adjectives that use white or pure references. Who does Clarisse represent in the story and what predictions can be made from the other two short stories we read? What do you think will happen to Clarisse?
2. The mantra of the govenment is for people to be happy. Without books to offend people or to make them think there is less unhappiness in the world. But it seems that unhappiness is plenty abound. Why do you think that is? Why isn't the government's idea working? Also why haven't people realized that they are unhappy and done something about it?
Alright, has anyone seen the movie, Idiocracy? I think you can relate this book to that movie (with less cursing, stupidity and sexual humor). Like in the movie, everyone forgot what it was like to have a happy life, or for it to have meaning.
aaronw-
i dont really agree with the fact that her family is "unconventional", i dont think that is the right word for them. Maybe different or rebelious.
What other words should we use to describe her family?
phoebef---I agree with you that symbolism is important already. It's scary how closely this is related to the short story the Pedestrian because lights were used as symbolism there too...
I think that the Pedestrian is very similar to this book. I also see how this makes sense, they were written by the same person and authors have a specific type of writing a lot of times and so sometimes you could be able to tell who wrote something just by their writing style.
I find it pretty interesting that the "normal" people of that time don't slow down enough to notice things like the dew on the grass, the man in the moon, or even the sights and sounds of nature, like life is already going too fast and it will keep getting faster until no one has time for anything but surviving.
I thought this section of the book was very thought provoking in the sense that people would try to kill themselves by over dosing on sleeping pills. I dont know why someone would do this but obviously they were so un-happy that they would. Also, Montag is very suprised when Clarrise says that she is seventeen and crazy. It is not just that she said that but they way that she appears to Montag. She is not affraid of him and this suprises him. I am a little confused about that burning of books. What is the story behind this?
okay molly, just talking out loud i guess...
another question that has been asked is why the firemen are sorta portrayed as bad ppl...
what are everyones thoughts?
Clarisse and her family are the forces that are challenging the system. Clarisse's society is supposed to be a utopia. Clarisse is a free thinker and walks around alone at night. Her family has all of their lights on in their house and they just talk. Montag thinks that its very strange because he is so used to his utopia which is a dystopia.
I also agree that the pedestrian has to do with this book and that Clarisse's uncle is the pedestrian. I agree with alexd that Clarisse is the "ultimate" system challenger because she thinks things through and is curious. She also gets other people thinking.
I agree with what Lizc said about the firemen being the arson starters. I think, like Mollys, that the people aren't scared about the firemen so much as the fires.
I have a question. How are people with books discovered? Is there something watching them. Are the telescreens and the "families" watching them and reporting them?
I think Clarisse made the impact because Montag has never seen someone who challenges the system. Everyone is the same, and she is almost the opposite. It surprises Montag that someone can think so much because people usually don't think at all for themselves. Clarrise is like Leonard Mead from the Pedestrian, thinking for himself and walking alone at night just for the heck of it.
i like what kristen is saying, any comments?
I agree with what Rachel said- Clarisse's family is conventional, it's just that in this modern society they are seen as unconventional because they notice the simple things in life while everybody else forgot about the simple things and got caught up in technology.
I think that conventional things are based on what is happenening at the time. In this book, they are unconventional, and might be thought of as old fashioned. Clarisses family is living in our times and this is peceved as weird as scary. Where as if someone was living as Montag is today they would be thought of as unconventional.
JohnB-
What is that movie about?
Specifically, How is it relevent to Farenheit 451?
alexd-
I think you're right, "unconventional" wouldn't be a good word.
Maybe, contrasting would be a better word.
nicolek
I think the salamander is a reference to the patch on his uniform. The fire seems to symbolize distruction or or forgetting. When he burns the books, they are destroyed and everything in those books is all forgotten in the past.
I thought it was really strange how Clarisse changed Montag is such a short time, but i think it does happen. You have to ask people the right questions to get them out of their comfort zone. Then they will realize who they are.
I think people in our time are happy with family and friends. I think relationships make people happy. When you are laughing and joking with your family and friends, you feel happy. I think Montag is unhappy since it doesn't seem like people have relationships in the future.
Aaron w.-I dont think that the fireman ar epertrayed necessarily as bad people, but more of people that have a lot of power. They can be seen a frightening without being bad.
I agree with Josed when he said that the author tries to show a major contrast to the normal American life.
alexd- another word you could use is anti-communist, since nick just said the community is communist...
anyone else have any words besides "unconventional"?
The main question that i have is why are books banned in the future?
well aaron, fire itself isnt usually seen as a positive thing, and so todays firemen get rid of the fire, whn these 451 firemen are starting it, making them worth being scared of...
but are they worth being scared of??
I think that the Firemen are seen as scary people because of the power that people see in fire. But mostly I think this fear is irrational and Clarissa can see that the fear isn't justified because she is such a down to earth girl.
jose- I believe that the people are downing the sleeping pills because they are unhappy and can't sleep. As we noticed from Macbeth sleep is where secrets come out. Everyone appears happy on the outside but how they are unable to sleep show that they aren't and that something is wrong
Do you think that this book predicts something about the future in a way? How can you make connections to the ways we are acting today? Are there any situations that are mimilar to the story of Farenhiet 451?
Going back to what everyone said about a lot of the characters popping pills: This just shows that Montag's society is a dystopia. Everything is very structured but not a lot of the citizens are happy. Even when Clarisse asked Montag if he was happy and he replied yes, he still went home and thought it over and realized that he was unhappy.
Stef O.- That is a very good question and observation. If the telescreens aren't "reporting" them then I think they could also just go through people's houses and search for books. I also had a question. Why are they even burning books?
If everyone has a copy of the book. Look at the cover.
What do you think it is trying to portray?
louiseb- i don't think they are bad, I'm just starting conversations about the things ppl are saying...
I thought that the comment that Nick said was very true, ahen he said that burning the books reminded him of cocmmunism. I thought the exact same thing.
Does anyone know why they are burning the books? Is it only certain books, or all of the books? Are the documents saved else where or is the history deleted permanently?
I have a REALLY BIG question. Why are books not allowed? It's just paper and ink for goodness sakes', and is this a job that can actually be called a job?????
Clarisse's family seems a lot more different than other families in Fahrenheit 451. Montag and Mildred never talk, and yet here their neighbors are just sitting down and spending time together. I think that it makes Montag feel lonely. As creepy as this may sound, I wonder if Montag would rather spend time with Clarisse than Mildred. Their marriage is going down hill; probably has something to do with the fact that she sits around popping pills. Montag likes being with Clarisse because she understands him and is willing to talk to him.
Montag says that he burns books, and firemen never used to put out fires. Does he actually believe that, or is he lying to a naive little girl?(Not that Clarisse is naive, she's really clever.)Montag burns books because it is his job and he enjoys it, but has he ever read a book? I think that behind the ventillator he is hiding a book that he was supposed to burn. Montag would already be challenging the system in this case, and I think that Clarisse is going to convince him to rebel even more. She is obviously different from other girls in that time period, and she might even be qualified as abnormal in today's society.
Elisabeth c- I could see how this book could predict the future in some ways, but I think that some of it is alittle far fetched, It makes me wonder if our society is sort of collapsing into something completly different?
serenal
Her uncle was arrested because he was being different and they don't want people to be different, they don't want anyone to challenge the system.
Going back to what Rachel said, do you think its possible to even be truely happy if you can't even think or make you own choices? Are you even really living if you just following a crowd all the time?
I have a question:
What were Montag and his wife talking about when his wife kept wanting to get a fourth wall? Why were these walls so important?
good question alex
i think it represents the fireman trying to escape the fire he is using, and that maybe he is like the books, a victim, but i think we wont really understand it more untill the end of the book
I feel like challenging the system is almost the same as going against peer pressure.
What does everyone else think?
I like what javon said about Bradbury warning us about the future. Also i think it's interesting how he compares this world to the present world were in right now.
I agree with what Clarao said about writing books and how they are a way to express ourselves. If there aren't any books, people can't discuss things, or to express their feelings.
molly, the firemen could be scared of the government. the government obviously were the first ppl to ban books and decide to burn them. anyone have any comments?
I think that this book is in a way predicting the future. Much like the pedestrian i think that Bradbury is trying to show that in the future, person to person communication will be lost due technology. Our knowledge will eentually become our demise. we will loose the ability to think outside of the box, and therefore will not challenge the system. It is the perfect dystopia. we will become so intelegent, and know so much about each other, we will loose the knoledge of interpersonal skills as well as the simple comforts of today.
wow... everyone sure likes to say "like"...
I think the title, The Hearth and The Salamandor, is intersting. obviously the salamandor is on Montags patch. A heart is like the ledge by a fire place. It's kind of interesting that there is so much reference to fire and he cse the title The Hearth and The Salamandor.
Do you think Montag has a happy marrage? Is this why he is so unhappy?
I like Chelsea's observation that Bradbury is saying that books are a luxury, even tough we don't notice it. Books are a way to express your feelings and thoughts so they don't want them in this society because they are trying to make everyone think the same things and prevent people from having opinions.
Serena, I totally agree with you. Clarisse's uncle seems just as peculiar as her, and we've already seen that Clarisse challenges the system by thinking and considering things. Most of these ideas seem to come from her uncle; I hope that he comes into the story.
Nick said something is the discussion that I agree with. I see alot of similarites between this book and the book 1984. this book was written around the era of the cold war when communism was a horrifiying reality. many books on civil rights were spouted out in definace. The future being described was a very possible future and it scared alot of people.
Wait, I have another question. Did he wright this book from personal opinion, current feelings, deppresion, a prediction, or just a warning???
i can't get this into the converstation, does anyone know why he is 'ripping apart' when he sees his wife knocked out?
aaron i can't live w/o the word "like"
I agree with waht Clara said in the outside circle about how books are a way of expressing yourself and since the want people to be the same they are burning the books.
If people read the books they will start thinking and might want to challenge tthe system.
JavonM
1. I think Clarisse associates the title of "fireman" with negativity, because she seems like someone that would love books. We don't really know how anyone else feels about firemen yet.
2. Clarisse is staying away from the crowd. She likes to be outside, take walks, and talk with her family, while everyone else sits inside and watches tv.
6. Clarisse having to meet with a psychiatrist reminded me of Harrison Bergeron and how everyone had to be equal. The psychiatrist seems to be wanting to stop Clarisse's way of thinking, so that she will be the same as everyone else.
phoebe- i don't think this is predicting the future because the only way this could work would be a communist takeover... and I don't think China and Cuba are looking to invade us anytime soon....
I agree with Alyssa. I think books are a good way to express yourself. I think that is why they won't be censored like we talked about in class yesterday.
The racism in the time could also reflect ideas of the book because clarsse and her family could be like the one African American family on the street and how they are thought to be so different but in reality they are normal, just like Clarisse's family is normal to our standards.
kristen- haha i sometimes say it too much every now and then... ppl at my church make fun of me with it...
meganu-
The walls are like huge televisions I think, that was my impression. The wife seems kind of spoiled if she is willing to take a third of her husbands pay just to buy one of these. Was she in a play? Do they act out the plays using these wall TV things?
ZachH-
I believe that Montag is trully unhappy because he is not like anyone else who he lives with. He wants to challenge the system but i dont think he has enough courage. But i also agree with him that his marriage is also making him unhappy.
meganu-
I think that the walls are like televisions or something. it reminds me of the movie Faliure to Launch. in the moie there is a cafe in which one wall is covered in screens they have different scenery on them. i think that the walls are a sort of delusion that you see and possibly experience other places and environments from you own home. i think that is the basic idea.
good connection nile that's could be an interesting point.
Javonm - to answer the second question, I think that she just like to slow down and be normal, She likes to hike and collect animals, I don't think that anybody else could see the joy in this.
Zach H.- I don't think Montag is in a happy marriage. I think that his marriage was happy at one point but then something happened and now they aren't happy. Bradbury hasn't told us what exactly happened to make him unhappy with his marriage, only that Montag wishes that his wife's memory could be erased or changed.
What happened to the freedom of speech?
clara just said that "they dont want them to think for themselves." Who is they. Where is the line between the common man and the higher archy? The government isn't very cleary defined in this book. Has the whole of soctiey deluded themselves into thinking that this type of society is good and right or is there a mythical all-knowing man who has the inteligence needed and keeps the world as it is in the book to control the power. or does the government truly believe what they enforce. If that makes any sense
rachel brought up interesting connections to LOF and Macbeth...
any comments?
A lot of times, it is said that children show a different perspective on life. She could see through his mask, and knew that he was really a good person on the inside.
alexd I also agree with you that challenging the system is somewhat like going against peer pressure. Because I guess the people who want you to be a certain way or just the same as everyone else are pressuring you or are trying to control you and your life. Challenging the system is striving to be different.
sorry this is random but i thought that was really wierd that the dudes who helped Montag's wife was smoking.
nile- that is a good point. But what if they were the one family who stood against banning books or something like that?
luke---I agree that no one else could enjoy the things she does. The pace of life moves so fast and everyone is so obsessed with technology that they can't enjoy simple things anymore.
I agree with ChelseaS
Johnb - I think that freedom of speech is totally gone in this story. I think that maybe the government totally took away the freedom of speech in order to make everybody equal, like in Harrison Bergeron.
MeganU-
I think that they were saying they already had three televisions that took up the entire wall, and Montag's wife wanted another one. This is so important to Montag's wife, because tv seems to be pretty much all she has.
i can connect this book to The Giver because in The Giver the people aren't independant and dont think for themselves. The one person in this book who thinks differently is Clarisse and Jonas in The Giver has the same ability.
i agree with Zackh that the title the Hearth and the Salamander is interesting because a Hearth is where you would have a fire in your home, like in F451 how they burn down the homes that have books; the Salamander was thought to be invenerable to fire and it also happens to be the simbol of the firemen, like they're unaffected by fire, and yet, Guy is affected, it gives him a false sence happiness, which Clarisse later rouses his suspision of himself and how happy he actually is.
kristen- could the smoking be a connection to the constant metaphor of fire?
Do people who don't rebel, do they really understand what's going on?
I mean people are like, okay with this. Do they ever question their current ways?
i really like niles idea, especially since the time period was the early 1950's
I agree with Josed that cause and effect are a big theme in this book. Like Rachel said, Montag is going to war with himself in a sense. This could relate to some states, or countries going to war in real life.
I agree with what Nick said in the discussion, it seems likeMantag was perfectly happy with his life up untill the point when he met Clarisse and then she showed him a whole new side of life and be begins to wonder about what he does and if he should be happy with his life or not, is there really any happiness with what he does everyday?
serenal
i think that his wife is an actress, and it is very possible, or even likly that her performances are shown on the "walls". If this is the case wouldnt she know that the plays are not real and then why would she say, "If we had the fourth wall, this room wouldnt be our room at all, but all kins of exotics people's rooms." it seems to me that she is an actress, but that the tv walls are used to sow different place sort of like web cam rather than an actually tv
kristenw-
I agree with you about the smoking thing. It almost gives me a feeling like this book is taking place in the past. I dont picture people smoking in the future.
kristen---I thought that was weird too! It's just like maybe they don't value health so much...even though he was making Montag's wife better, it was weird about the smoking so I think it means that no one really cares about their health, also because of all of the pill-popping...
serenal-
O ok that makes sense.
Ya I don't know if she was in a play or not. All I got out of it was that she recieves these scripts and acts them out with other people. I don't know if they actually act them out for the public to see. I thought her reaction to doing improv was really strange. I can see that they don't have very much free will and they can't think on their own because her improv lines are so simple. She just gives a simple response to the other character's lines. She gets totally excited over that too!
whoa nile i connected this book to the giver too but i didn';t know why but now i know.
Montag is the true protector of is wife. She does not help him though, like Lady Macbeth did. She is sort of like the wife in Harrison Bergeron. His wife has no position of power.
There are some different covers of this book but the cover with the man made of newspaper on fire is also a symbol. It shows that he's burning himself because the pages of books are expressions of people and they are burning indivuality. I think Montag is going to realize that burning literature is wrong so he "wears" the pages so he can be a unique individual and challenge the system.
JohnB
I think thats a good point. Books are a way authors express themselves and if books are banned, it takes away their rights.
It also takes away freedom of the press. Freedom of the Press gives citizens the right to know how things work and what is going on in the world. By destroying and banning books, it takes away this right.
I agree with Clara O, Marrige in this book seems like it is a really small part of life and it is just kind of there, it doesn't really mean anything.
This book was written more then 50 years ago. Do you think there were problems with the government then that may have led to this situation in our future, or have those problems been resolved and our societies future will be a controlled eutopia? or dystopia as the case may be?
I agree with LouiseB and Nick. It seems like Clarisse changed his life and the way he thinks about things in just a matter of minutes, and I think she will continue to have a big effect on him as the book goes on.
sorry my comment definitely didnt make any sense...
i meant to say that i didnt picture people with that job smoking in this time period it seems unprofessional...
and i was also trying to say that i dont picture people smoking at all in the future..
i think its strange that no one in the story beside Montag,Clarisse and her family, And Mildred have been mentioned. i think this is so that we will focus more on the ideas of these characters
I'm really confused about the thing with the vent in the hall...why did Montag keep stopping and looking up at it? It probably means something but I don't know what.
I thought Jose made an interesting point when he said that Bradbury has a major theme of using cause and effect in his writings. Like after the jets fly by his house, he starts freaking out because his wife almost kills herself by overdosing.
I agree with what Nile said about connecting it to the Giver. In the Giver there were no colors, everything was just gray and in Fahreneit 451 color seems to be a big symbol like how he would refer to Clarisse as always being white.
Phoebef - I think that the three walls were the TV. Kind of like it was a play TV show that was going on all around the them. And if the fourth wall was there then the TV would totally enclose them and the entire room would be a TV. So there really wouldn't be a room there at all, just a giant TV.
louiseb-
i think that montag began happy with his job, career, and life in general. I think that a fireman is seen as a glamorous job, much like being an actor or actress in present day. He probably mariied his wife and loved her at the begining, but it seems like he barly knows her. He know is bored with his life, and realizes that he isnt really happy
I agree with Nicolek about not knowing what love is, or how to love. This is like the Giver, and that they can't think on their own.
Montag's mask of burning books and enjoying fire is kind of like Jack's paint mask. He couln't kill the pig until he donned it; maybe Montag won't be able to burn books now because Clarisse took away his defense. Also, in both LOF and Fahrenheit 451, fire seems to represent power and control.
Montag's mask of burning books and enjoying fire is kind of like Jack's paint mask. He couln't kill the pig until he donned it; maybe Montag won't be able to burn books now because Clarisse took away his defense. Also, in both LOF and Fahrenheit 451, fire seems to represent power and control.
alexd-
Idiocracy (although a very crude movie) is a very scary thought. It's about some army generals who are frozen and then wake up 500 years later and the world is a huge mess. No one knows how to do anything exept be lazy. They don't even know how to make plants grow.
It's related to Fahrenheit 451 for the loss of knowledge of what everything used to be
I agree with Maddief, that the masks represent power, but I think that Montag wants to find/create a new mask for himself, but he keeps denying it. I predict that later in the book, F451, he will come to terms with himself and see that he needs to break out of the rut everyone, but Clarissa and her family, is in, or else they wouldn't have a story.
I think the reason that books seem to be hated in this society is because some of them really challenge the system and make people think. Someone said this in the discussion and I forgot who it was but they said that books let the authors express themselves and teach everyone to think for themselves, and this is the last thing this society seems to want. It seems like everyone in this book is so empty-headed and technology-obsessed.
Everybody keeps asking about if Montag is happy with his life and his marriage and I just kind of noticed something as I was reading. It seems to me like Montag was doing fine on his way home, even with Clarisse questioning him, but when he got home his spirits seemed to just drop. Almost like he didn't want to be at home and deal with his wife, whereas before he came home he was perky and happy because he got to burn books. Does it seem to anyone else like there is a big gap between Montag and his wife?
alyssas---I agree that there's a gap between Montag and his wife. I think maybe they used to love each other, but something happened and they grew apart, almost like we saw with Macbeth and Lady Macbeth in Macbeth. It's actually really sad that they're husband and wife but don't even appear to be affectionate or love each other that much. Someone said in the discussion today that even though Montag doesn't even seem to love his wife, he was concerned after her pill-popping incident because she's really the only thing he has and he didn't want to lose her. Even though their society seems really cold and everything, he still needs someone, even if he doesn't even love her very much. Sorry that kinda went off topic :-)
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