Alexd- That is a really good question. I kind of think that the people in this book have been brainwashed by the government to belive that this is always what has happened and that life has always been the same. The only flaw to this idea is that if Clarisse's uncle somehow knows that the world used to be different then why aren't their more old people challenging the system about how it used to be... unless they have all been brainwashed as well? I think that this is just what people have known for all their lives so they don't know what better things they are missing.
that's an interesting thought. I think even if there isn't a "government" like we have today, they probably have some sort of assigned group of people or an organization that governs them. So there is some sort of governing body.
To what Rachel was saying about if we took away everything what would happen? that is like Lord of the Flies. Everything was taken away, they had no government and they had to start from scratch. It seems like in a lot of ways, Lord of the Flies is the opposite of Ferinheit 451
I think that with fireproof houses, there was no need for firemen anymore. However the society still expects firemen and so they found something for them to do.
Governments can change books inorder to manipulate society. It's weird to think about, but how many books have we read that have been censored or altered by the government? I mean, if books on history are different throughout the world, then eventually nothing will agree. Then we'll be in Montag's society burning books and acting like pyro-maniacs.
A couple of minutes ago someone said something about taking away knowledge in the inside circle. They do this by taking away books, but if this society is so advanced, then won't they have the internet that has just as much information about the past? Was the internet "outdated" like firemen who put out fires instead of creating them?
Like zach said I think there must be some type of main governing body, otherwise how could the desire for equality and the perfect society have been established? The people probably didn't do that on their own...
Maddie F.- I think that both going with society and going against society can cause happiness. Just going with the system can make you feel normal, but if you want to feel different and alive, you can change and go against the government. Like Mrs. Smith said, everybody has their own idea of happiness so I think it mostly boils down to personal opinion.
I think that Montag isn't going to have a chance to persuade enough people becuase I think Montag had some thoughts of hisown before he met Clarisse because he was so understanding when Clarisse changed his thoughts. It seems that when he first made an attempt to rattle the mind's of his fellow firemen and his wife that they all thought that he was looney. I think even if he didn't know it that he always had some internal feeling of the wrong that life was.
one more thought: when his wife is talking about spending 1/3 of his paycheck on a TV in the prior reading, does anyone think maybe inflation was put down and prices were back to what they were earlier? Or is it just because this book was written in the 50's the prices were low?
javonm- i think that the people were not brain washed, but instead this is the 2nd or 3rd genneration of people under this society. Montag keeps mentioning the old man he saw in the park a night a long time ago. the old man was probably one of the last people who remember the world as it used to be. Has this society spread world wide, or is it confined to one place. if the ide is spread aroung the world is it all beneath the smae government?
I agree with amy the firemen dont seem to be the government but the deffinitly carry out orders from a higher power but we dont know who that higher power is
Serena---Bradbury couldn't have known about the Internet because this book was written in the 50s or 60s, so the Internet didn't exist yet. This is an interesting idea, but it doesn't come into play here because the book was written so long ago.
Molly- that's a good point. I think that the firemen may play a bigger part than other people in the government but I don't think they are the government completely, because the firemen don't know more than anyone else. They are clueless like everyone else.
Has anyone thought that there might not even be any teachers? Does this society revolve around greed, or just that they don't know about what life was like before all of these bannings.
Another thought-why aren't there any law enforcement officials to enforce the laws represented in the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence? Do any of these thhings matter in life?
zach - I think that there is a governing body in all of this but I think that there is a very little that they do. Crime seems to go unstopped, and car crahses are unchecked as well. The only people that are really doing anything are the firemen. Which is why Montag could be such a dangerous person that is supporting chang. If he is one of the only people that enforces the government and he deicides to stop doing that, he could truely make a difference.
I agree with you, Alyssa; happiness isn't something that you can create, it's just there. When you try to make yourself happy, you're forcing yourself to accept something that is not really there, just like how Montag was pretending to be content with his life.
I just read through all the comments. There is an underlying theme of that technology may have something to do with this dystopia. What about the technology we use in this class? should the progress of technology be stopped in order to save humanity. The progression of technology was topped in the book 1984. Conditions were bad and labor was put to a meaningless war so that production was massive but it was really producing nothing for the people. Stopping technology was a means to control the people. Also people with genius to invent and improve would be put down without the chance to improve the world technologically. So there are two sides to that theory.
What does it actually take to change society? Can Montag actually start this change by himself? If he tries to, what will they do to him in thsi day and age?
John just talked about "back in the day" when people are persecuted for their religious belief. Aren't people still persecuted? It just isn't legal anymore
chelseas- i think that some of the rights listed in the constitution are not in affect anyomore. the main theme of the book is that books are banned. books are a version of speach, which is one of the ammendments in the constitution. my guess is that many other rights like the right to bear arms, freedom of religion, and others are no longer in affect.
kristen- and so he is going to fight the guilt and make it dissapear? sounds right to me... haha
amanda- but does the governement really have that much more knowledge? i get the feeling that this siciety is run by people that just know as much as everyone else, i thtink it is ment to be that way.... or not, thats sounds stupid as i re-read it
molly- wow i never thought of it that way. The two books have opposite societies but the effects of the societies are very similar such as violence and segragation and unhappiness
I've noticed a lot of things like you said. Internet wasn't around, cell phones, even seatbelts weren't around until late 50s early 60s. IT's like in The Pedsetrian when he says he hears the calvory coming. By now we really don't have an American Calvory, but it gets the military point across. I think the book would be really good if he incorporated technology we have today.
I think its possible for one man to change society but I don't think Montag will succeed if he tries to change his society. Macbeth greatly changed his society just by believing in the prophecy he was given. Montag has the possibility of changing his society but he feels guilty about reading that one line of the fairy tale and he hides the book he has from everyone. I don't think he has what it takes to fully challenge the system and try to change society.
Maddie I agree with you, making yourself happy means you aren't actually happy and you're just forcing yourself to think you're happy. It makes me think of the quote "ignorance is bliss". Before Montag knew he wasn't really happy, he was ignorant because he had no idea. Then when Clarisse came along he realized he wasn't happy. So his own ignorance actually made him happy, then when he wasn't happy he wasn't ignorant anymore.
amyw- Thank you for answering my question, I completely forgot that this book was written so long ago, that shows how much we take advantage of our technology know a days. I guess it wouldn't be too hard to knock out everyones server, they could get firemen to burn all of the website servers!
237 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 237 of 237Alexd- That is a really good question. I kind of think that the people in this book have been brainwashed by the government to belive that this is always what has happened and that life has always been the same. The only flaw to this idea is that if Clarisse's uncle somehow knows that the world used to be different then why aren't their more old people challenging the system about how it used to be... unless they have all been brainwashed as well? I think that this is just what people have known for all their lives so they don't know what better things they are missing.
Aaronw-
that's an interesting thought. I think even if there isn't a "government" like we have today, they probably have some sort of assigned group of people or an organization that governs them. So there is some sort of governing body.
To what Rachel was saying about if we took away everything what would happen? that is like Lord of the Flies. Everything was taken away, they had no government and they had to start from scratch. It seems like in a lot of ways, Lord of the Flies is the opposite of Ferinheit 451
I think that with fireproof houses, there was no need for firemen anymore. However the society still expects firemen and so they found something for them to do.
I don't think the fireman are the government, they just carry out the orders of the higher power in the government, whoever that might be.
Chelseas-I think the book is showing that corruption is hard to see if you don't know what an ideal gov't looks like.
Governments can change books inorder to manipulate society. It's weird to think about, but how many books have we read that have been censored or altered by the government? I mean, if books on history are different throughout the world, then eventually nothing will agree. Then we'll be in Montag's society burning books and acting like pyro-maniacs.
A couple of minutes ago someone said something about taking away knowledge in the inside circle. They do this by taking away books, but if this society is so advanced, then won't they have the internet that has just as much information about the past? Was the internet "outdated" like firemen who put out fires instead of creating them?
I think AmyW is right. The fireman only carry out orders from someone.
Like zach said I think there must be some type of main governing body, otherwise how could the desire for equality and the perfect society have been established? The people probably didn't do that on their own...
Nicole- i really like that idea about them being opposites,
but when things are exact opposite, how differnt are they? because there are many similarities!
Maddie F.- I think that both going with society and going against society can cause happiness. Just going with the system can make you feel normal, but if you want to feel different and alive, you can change and go against the government. Like Mrs. Smith said, everybody has their own idea of happiness so I think it mostly boils down to personal opinion.
I agree with louise, that if society expects authority figures like firemen, then they make a seperate job to go and burn the books.
I think that Montag isn't going to have a chance to persuade enough people becuase I think Montag had some thoughts of hisown before he met Clarisse because he was so understanding when Clarisse changed his thoughts. It seems that when he first made an attempt to rattle the mind's of his fellow firemen and his wife that they all thought that he was looney. I think even if he didn't know it that he always had some internal feeling of the wrong that life was.
molly-
maybe he could feel guilt by being a follower when he should be standing up for these things he believe in.
one more thought: when his wife is talking about spending 1/3 of his paycheck on a TV in the prior reading, does anyone think maybe inflation was put down and prices were back to what they were earlier? Or is it just because this book was written in the 50's the prices were low?
javonm- i think that the people were not brain washed, but instead this is the 2nd or 3rd genneration of people under this society. Montag keeps mentioning the old man he saw in the park a night a long time ago. the old man was probably one of the last people who remember the world as it used to be. Has this society spread world wide, or is it confined to one place. if the ide is spread aroung the world is it all beneath the smae government?
I agree with amy the firemen dont seem to be the government but the deffinitly carry out orders from a higher power but we dont know who that higher power is
Serena---Bradbury couldn't have known about the Internet because this book was written in the 50s or 60s, so the Internet didn't exist yet. This is an interesting idea, but it doesn't come into play here because the book was written so long ago.
Molly- that's a good point. I think that the firemen may play a bigger part than other people in the government but I don't think they are the government completely, because the firemen don't know more than anyone else. They are clueless like everyone else.
Has anyone thought that there might not even be any teachers? Does this society revolve around greed, or just that they don't know about what life was like before all of these bannings.
Another thought-why aren't there any law enforcement officials to enforce the laws represented in the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence? Do any of these thhings matter in life?
zach - I think that there is a governing body in all of this but I think that there is a very little that they do. Crime seems to go unstopped, and car crahses are unchecked as well. The only people that are really doing anything are the firemen. Which is why Montag could be such a dangerous person that is supporting chang. If he is one of the only people that enforces the government and he deicides to stop doing that, he could truely make a difference.
I agree with you, Alyssa; happiness isn't something that you can create, it's just there. When you try to make yourself happy, you're forcing yourself to accept something that is not really there, just like how Montag was pretending to be content with his life.
I just read through all the comments. There is an underlying theme of that technology may have something to do with this dystopia. What about the technology we use in this class? should the progress of technology be stopped in order to save humanity. The progression of technology was topped in the book 1984. Conditions were bad and labor was put to a meaningless war so that production was massive but it was really producing nothing for the people. Stopping technology was a means to control the people. Also people with genius to invent and improve would be put down without the chance to improve the world technologically. So there are two sides to that theory.
What does it actually take to change society? Can Montag actually start this change by himself? If he tries to, what will they do to him in thsi day and age?
I think school is just there because people expect it, and I don't think the schools teach skills, just about how they should conform.
John just talked about "back in the day" when people are persecuted for their religious belief. Aren't people still persecuted? It just isn't legal anymore
chelseas- i think that some of the rights listed in the constitution are not in affect anyomore. the main theme of the book is that books are banned. books are a version of speach, which is one of the ammendments in the constitution. my guess is that many other rights like the right to bear arms, freedom of religion, and others are no longer in affect.
kristen- and so he is going to fight the guilt and make it dissapear? sounds right to me... haha
amanda- but does the governement really have that much more knowledge? i get the feeling that this siciety is run by people that just know as much as everyone else, i thtink it is ment to be that way.... or not, thats sounds stupid as i re-read it
molly- wow i never thought of it that way. The two books have opposite societies but the effects of the societies are very similar such as violence and segragation and unhappiness
Lia-
I think the school is just for brainwashing
AmyW-
I've noticed a lot of things like you said. Internet wasn't around, cell phones, even seatbelts weren't around until late 50s early 60s. IT's like in The Pedsetrian when he says he hears the calvory coming. By now we really don't have an American Calvory, but it gets the military point across. I think the book would be really good if he incorporated technology we have today.
I think its possible for one man to change society but I don't think Montag will succeed if he tries to change his society. Macbeth greatly changed his society just by believing in the prophecy he was given. Montag has the possibility of changing his society but he feels guilty about reading that one line of the fairy tale and he hides the book he has from everyone. I don't think he has what it takes to fully challenge the system and try to change society.
Maddie I agree with you, making yourself happy means you aren't actually happy and you're just forcing yourself to think you're happy. It makes me think of the quote "ignorance is bliss". Before Montag knew he wasn't really happy, he was ignorant because he had no idea. Then when Clarisse came along he realized he wasn't happy. So his own ignorance actually made him happy, then when he wasn't happy he wasn't ignorant anymore.
nicole- i am giving you a hih five after class, it's crazy how that works huh?
Believing that things will change because they must is our only hope
amyw- Thank you for answering my question, I completely forgot that this book was written so long ago, that shows how much we take advantage of our technology know a days. I guess it wouldn't be too hard to knock out everyones server, they could get firemen to burn all of the website servers!
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