Saturday, February 9, 2008

AWNM: Play Period 5

Fishbowl with Live Blogging
February 15, 2008
12:14-1:12 pm
Judy O’Connell:
Judy writes, speaks, and consults on school technology and library issues. She is an educator and information professional. Currently, Judy is the Head of Library and Information Services at St. Joseph’s College in Hunters Hill in Sydney, New South Wales, Australia.

Mike Porter:
Mike is the Assistant Director of Instructional Technology in Littleton Public Schools. He is a former Language Arts teacher and a parent of an LPS student.

Eric Grant:
Eric is a techie, an educator, and a futurist. He holds degrees in Information & Decision Systems and Political Science from Carnegie Mellon, and a Masters in Learning, Design, and Technology from Stanford. Eric's career began in enterprise software, moved to new media, and then drifted into education; he spent the past few years as a researcher and instructional designer at the Stanford Center for Innovations in Learning. His areas of academic interest include learning and working spaces, distributed and co-located collaboration, cross-cultural education, foresight strategy, and just about anything to do with the intersection of humans and technology. Eric lives in the SF Bay Area.

252 comments:

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maddisonm said...

Whitneys- I think that play supplements learning because, learning just the facts and memorizing is not fun. What I mean by this is that most of us would not consider school as a fun activity that we would want to go spend time on weekends or in our free time “doing”. So when we can incorporate play into learning, it now becomes more fun, more like we are not just learning the facts. It becomes a different experience. We will have a different approach to learning if it is incorporated in Play.

morganw said...

Hannahl - Fahrenheit 451 teaches us that a world without any thinking or play or meaning or symphony or deep knowledge of any kind turns people into nothingness - they aren't even worthy to be called vegtables or robots. Even those had more of a purpose than the common people in F451.

I see your point, though. I can understand what you're trying to get at with this.

Eric Grant said...

catem - other students could design the feedback and grade each other. or performance in the game could be the test :)

Eric Grant said...

stephenf - oops. was that too sarcastic?

Laurenc said...

Mattw - Yes i have noticed that and I go back to my idea of balance. The only sad thing here is that this balance is hard to achieve and so we generally lean to one side or the other" Tough world, cockeyed"

mitchs said...

Mattf- I think that for the most part, play and learning are too different to be combined. When you are playing, it's hard to focus on memorizing information. And when you are trying to learn something, it's hard to focus on anything besides the material (for me atleast.)

mattf said...

Mattw- Your logic means we're all in trouble. We are either going to be lonely or stupid. Ought OOHH!!

hannahl said...

mattw- Great point. Life is not divided into education and life. It should be that learning is an important part of life and having fun supplements a fulfilled person. Being lonely is never fun, but being ignorant is just as bad. We can't just say that one is better than the other, everyone needs balance. Personally, I find joy in learning, but not knowledge. It is the pursuit that matters to me.

Anonymous said...

Matt- I think that is way too stereotypical. Agreed that some people need to chill out and have fun but on the other hand, some people need to get it together and work harder. I think that brings us back to the idea that you need a balance between play and seriousness.

Eric Grant said...

mitchs - can you give a counterexample to your own argument?

jordanh said...

To add to my old question- Even though lab has its probelms, isn't it better then having no lab or experimenting like in math?

ParkerH said...

Mattw~ That's a great insight. I think that life is all about balance. Anything that is overabused is bad.

stephenf said...

What do you guys think of the idea behind those kids who just take things to far or just sit there and never laugh?

katyj said...

alexf- very good point. maybe if it wasnt so important for us to get an A, then maybe we would actually do better on projects because we arent afraid of failure.

mattw said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
catem said...

Laurenc~Then what is positive about thoughtless play? What does repition teach you? I am not trying to be rude, I am just curious what you think.

ashleyf said...

Hannah- you bring up a good point with Farhenheit 451. People became un-real because of this utopia they lived in where all they do is watch TV and talk with thier "family," who were just the TV characters. It sounds like it was the video game of the future. Making more and more of these sort of virtual reality games, will we live a life like the people in Farhenheit 451?

Laurenc said...

jordanh - to be completely honest, the only good thing about lab for me is the fact that I miss math that day

alexf said...

Matt -
I disagree, i don't think that you are either going to end up stupid or lonely. Exaggeration! haha

mattf said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
morganw said...

What does everyone think is the main lesson we can learn from the discussions we've been having today?

I think that the lesson we learn from this is that we have to have a balance in everything. We can't spend too much time playing video games, but it's like its going to kill us to play them once in a while. We can't spend all of our lives thinking and concentrating, but we also can't spend our lives blowing off learning and not paying attention to what's going on around us. Do you see what I mean? Balance is the key. I think that's what Pink's trying to get at in this book - A Whole New Mind - a balance between both sides.

Anonymous said...

alexf - I completely agree about the grades! If there weren't grades then I would truly learn just because I wanted to. However this causes some problems. I see the need for grades because they give a worth to education. They are a logical, factual, left brain proof that you are learning. The times when students are so tired of school, the hope for good grades sometimes pushes them to continue working hard.

mitchs said...

Eric Grant- Yes, I can give a counterexample. It's hard for me to mix learning and play because it's just too much for me to focus on. There are people who can focus on both. They can have fun while learning. Those are the kind of people who can learn math formulas and make it fun. It just don't have that skill.

Laurenc said...

catem - your not being rude at all ^^ and I don't think it teaches anything to be frank but it relives us of stress and lets us run away from school and work for just a little while. plus, racing down a hill is exilerating to the body !

mattw said...

maddieh - I didn't mean that to be stereotypical. I know a lot of people have a balance, but I just wanted to ask if that has anything to do with having an overbearing right or left side of the brain.

Anonymous said...

Morgan- Brilliant observation. Its very true :)

Eric Grant said...

catem - i hate to say it, but sometimes repetition works. it doesn't take a lot of higher brain power to work out the times tables, but memorizing it takes even less memorization power.

catem said...

Alex and Katy: Why do you think that there are grades, why do we have to compare our learning to the students in the class if we are all different in how we learned?

maddisonm said...

Eric Grant- I just read your comment about how you used to make the video games for children. That is so interesting! I never really knew if they worked or not, but know I have no doubt they do! That is so interesting. What were some of the things you looked at when you were designing them?

katyj said...

whitneys- good point. i think that when i just want to throw all of my work in the fire, and dance around it ceremoniously, the only thing that keeps me from doing it is the fact that if i did it i wouldnt get good grades.

mattf said...

Alexf- It was a sarcastic comment. (it is fitting in the chapter of play)

mattw said...

well miss alex-judge-everyone's-comments-instantly... i didn't mean that.

Karl Fisch said...

The bell just rang - we're done. Thanks Eric

Eric Grant said...

maddisonm - we spent a lot of our time trying to combine the fun with the learning (that was the easy part) while meeting silly state and national standards like the ones you are tested on with #2 pencils. also tons of user tests with 6-year-olds behind one-way glass to see if they stayed interested.

Eric Grant said...

thanks to everyone!

mitchs said...

Whitneys- That's a great point. The only reason I really put any effort into school is because of grades. If there were no grades, I probably wouldn't do any work at all. But having a 4.0 really helps with hockey, at least in scouting, and it gets you into a good college, which helps you get a good job. So, that's why I work for my grades.

lesliel said...

hey guys! So I was sick today and I just happened to fall asleep at 11:30 and did not wake up until 1:10 exactly. I was planning on blogging with you guys but unfortunataly...
Anyways, my personal stance on video games is that yes they can be helpful in a way, but people do need to first learn how to have fun on their own and not rely on technology too much.
Whille I was reading I got sucked in by Hannahl, LaurnenC, Mattw, and Cate's argument on vidoe games, and I'm sorry to most of you, but I agree with what Hannah was saying. People do, in a manner of speaking, become robots when they become addicted to video games, and lets face it, this happens a lot! Playing video games and movie around the control will become second instincts after a certain amount of time. I think that by the time that someone is replacing something that they have to do, for example, homework, with video games, then there needs to be some ind of change. People need to control for themselves, the amount of vidoe games they play.


So now comes my question that I thought about earlier this morning for those who get on the blog later:

If learning was changed to where the right brain was being hammered with games or humor or any right brained activities all week at school, what would people do on the weekend? Do you think that people would start using their unused left brain on the weekends to they could give their right brains a rest?

macm said...

Beckyg-I think that video games can be helpful and =hurtful at the same time. I read an article about how kids who played video games had better hand-eye coordination than those who didn't. I also agree with Mattw, because when you play Guitar Hero or DDR, you can't rally play the guitar or dance, but it makes you feel like you can and it does't rally take any natural ability, just practice. I do think that it can be harmful because some people become literally addicted to video games and focus on them instead of their homework and othe priorities. And although I think that homework is overrated, it is reality as opposed to video games, which are a getaway from real life.

macm said...

Whitneys-
I think that things like video games and movies are different from books, though they have their benefits and they all take you away from reality, because books do not provide a picture for you. They give a description so that you can make your own picture, which will always be different than anyone else's because it is personalized. I am writing my paper on negative space, and I think that it applies well to what you asked. I don't think that they are unhealthy, but in moderate doses. Too much of anything is always a bad thing.

macm said...

Here's my take on the video games/play topic: I think that video games are fun, and I don't deny that I myslef was once a guitar hero junkie, but eventually, you get bored. this is why books are so great. Every time you read you can change the story behind the story. Say, when we were reading LOF. Maybe you were thinking about how Piggy got to be the way he was. What was his aunty like? Did he have a hard time at school and so on. This is why, I know I'm a nerd, but I like to re-read books. Over and over again, because I always find something new to contemplate. When you play video or computer games, eventually you wear out all of the levels and get bored of the scenarios. It happens. I aknowledge that this can happen with books too, so this is why make-believe games are so great, just as hannahl has pointed out. You make your story new every time! How great is that? Kids now are losing the ability to imagine and create because video games and computer games are thinking for them. Sure, you can play the Sims and make your own house and person, etc, but the game makers still limit you choices of what to do. For instance you can't build a four story house. You could imagine a twenty story house if you felt like it. As a last point I just wanted to ask a question about the past. People in the generation before computers and wiis were more disciplined and seemingly more creative. But did the time taint their ability to think with their right brain? Which is worse, to not use your right brain, or to not be creative?

LeslieL said...

good point Mac, I would agree with you and add my own point: sometimes when you read books you don't catch everything you read, and when you reread something, you can add up the missed details, which also can change the story. I mean, for me, everytime I reread Harry Potter, I catch something new everytime and develop that world I imagine even more.

Have you ever found that playing video games is more fun than reading?

mattw said...

Me agree that video games where out after a while, but to hannah or mac, some games have incredibly intricate story lines. One is Final Fantasy. There are about fourteen+ installments, all have a surprisingly complex story behind it.

To lesliel - wow, i honestly never thought of that! i can't think of an answer off the top of my head, but my guess would be that we'd find some form of entertainment that required even less intellect than before. maybe like... hibernating.....

mattw said...

leslie - that answer was to your first comment.

to the one right above my comment- I actually have. Just because I've opted for the video game side in this argument, doesn't mean that I don't like to read. But you can't physically watch your character jump from a cathedral steeple in slow motion, flinging ninja stars and what-not in a book.

mattw said...

Alexf- what you said a WAY LONG time ago in this blog, I do think that sometimes play can be bad in studies, because the teacher decides on the play, and while it may be meant to make things more interesting, it can also confuse you and even bore you, because you may think it's just some lame "activity" that the teacher thought would "enhance our learning".

Unknown said...

alexf- sarcasm is a hard type of humor. Sometimes people don't really get it, and other times that is the only type of humor people can say.

Personally, I think that real genuine humor is better than sarcasm. Sarcasm can be funny, but if you are laughing at genuine humor, you can keep laughing about it later. Sarcasm sometimes is funny, then it just dies. That is my two cents about sarcasm.

Unknown said...

On the whole 'are video games good or bad,' I think that too many video games can be harmful. If a child plays video games all day then I don't think that is at all beneficial. I also think that some video games can be helpful. Like the roleplaying games that Pink was talking about, that can help introduce empathy.

Unknown said...

Guys, what skills do you think that video games need to enhance the most? Eye-hand coordination, empathy, or what about advertising? Like Pink said, the army came out with a video game that tried to advertise the army while enhancing certain skills. So, what do you guys think?

Unknown said...

I had another question for you guys. On page 194 Pink says, "What's more, games have begun to reach the medical field. For example, children with diabetes can now use GlucoBoy, whch hooks up to a Nintendo Game Boy, to monitor their glucose levels" (Pink 194). Well, I am a type 1 diabetic. I found this quite interesting. I've never heard of it before, and I was wondering whether or not you guys think this sort of thing is beneficial. Of course, it's not only for diabetics, but for other medical conditions. What do you guys think?

Unknown said...

alexf and katyj- I agree with that point completely! This is from personal experience. I am a perfectionist. Grades are pretty much my life at the moment (besides swimming of course). When doing a project, I do tend to concentrate on the details and the requirements in order to get a good grade instead of thinking about what I learned. I also tend to just learn the things I need to learn in order to do well on the test. So, I think I really would learn better if there were no grades.

lesliel said...

mattw, with what you said about "physically watch your character jump from a cathedral steeple in slow motion, flinging ninja stars and what-not in a book", couldn't you look at that as a lazier and simpler way of reading? I mean, you're watching a story and all you have to do is sit and watch, and maybe play, however in a book, you don't exactly get handed what the scene or character looks like. That is why, personally, I think that a lot of people get dissapionted with movies, for example. Everyone imagines things in different ways, and when it is handed to people on a silver platter, all they are seeing is one person, or group's, perspective.
Does that make sense?

lesliel said...

Morgan,
For your question, I think that that idea is pretty logical even though I really do not know much on the medical subject. I mean, if someone is playing a video game, and they get so into it that they can not measure it themselves, then yes, this is a helpful safety precaution I think. Though those specific people who use that technology in the video game cannot become too relied on it, for the technology can break, and it won't be with them all of the time (lets hope).

stephenf said...

Matt- I don't think that is enterily true. Most students that ignore their learning don't just become stupid, they have "street smart" as my sister would put it. They have common sense and can make decisions for themselves.

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