Saturday, February 9, 2008

AWNM: Play Period 5

Fishbowl with Live Blogging
February 15, 2008
12:14-1:12 pm
Judy O’Connell:
Judy writes, speaks, and consults on school technology and library issues. She is an educator and information professional. Currently, Judy is the Head of Library and Information Services at St. Joseph’s College in Hunters Hill in Sydney, New South Wales, Australia.

Mike Porter:
Mike is the Assistant Director of Instructional Technology in Littleton Public Schools. He is a former Language Arts teacher and a parent of an LPS student.

Eric Grant:
Eric is a techie, an educator, and a futurist. He holds degrees in Information & Decision Systems and Political Science from Carnegie Mellon, and a Masters in Learning, Design, and Technology from Stanford. Eric's career began in enterprise software, moved to new media, and then drifted into education; he spent the past few years as a researcher and instructional designer at the Stanford Center for Innovations in Learning. His areas of academic interest include learning and working spaces, distributed and co-located collaboration, cross-cultural education, foresight strategy, and just about anything to do with the intersection of humans and technology. Eric lives in the SF Bay Area.

252 comments:

1 – 200 of 252   Newer›   Newest»
whitneys said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mattw said...

I think that play gives you a reason to care. without it, you have not motivation other than to learn.

Eric Grant said...

helpful for many activities, but sometimes you need a dose of reality

alexf said...

I just have a quick question. In AWNM, Pink said that humor is an important part of our society today. He also said that GOOD humor is important. What do you guys think about sarcasm? Is it good humor, because it does make people laugh...

whitneys said...

do you guys think video games are helpful or hurtful?

beckyg said...

I think video games are probably more hurtful than helpful because I think the time spent playing and perfecting video games can be put to better use playing outside or doing other healthy things.

Karl Fisch said...

@eric - are you getting sound/video?

mattw said...

Maybe video games make you feel special, because you can fly, shoot aliens, and be your own hero. REality isn't always the best thing.

Eric Grant said...

alexf - sarcasm is my main type of humor, but i think it taints the laughter

ZachH said...

I agree with Eric,

I think games can help with job simulations and other activities, but I don't think all games are beneficial.

mitchl. said...

Well I think that video games can be really beneficial to people who aren't obsessed with them and don't play them 24/7. But there are studies that have shown surgeons that have played an average of one hour a week have better finishing times and fewer mistakes in their surgeries.

maddieh said...

Whitney- Personally, I think videogames help because some people like doctors and pilots can use simulations to help them develop skills and get better hand-eye coordination. But they can be hurtful if people always use them (just for fun) and start to think just about a videogame than life.

mattf said...

Video games are helpful. It has been proven that playing Top Gun for a few hours a week actually helps the surgeons perform surgery.

"Researchers found that doctors who spent at least three hours a week playing video games made about 37 percent fewer mistakes in laparoscopic surgery and performed the task 27 percent faster than their counterparts who did not play video games." This is from http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4685909/

Eric Grant said...

karl - yes

beckyg said...

I think sarcasm is humor. It can be very funny, and often sarcasm is used to bring laughs like humor.

jordanh said...

I think that people who play a lot of video games do worse in school because A. I agree with the inner circle that you can leave reality to go to an imaginary place and that B people spend too much time doing it. I think that in order to make video games beneficial, one must realize that it isn't realistic and that one needs to achieve balance to complete homework.

whitneys said...

alefx - I don't know about sarcasm. I think it is a very negative kind of humor. Pink mentioned negative humor in the chapter. It is counterproductive in my opinion.

Eric Grant said...

maddieh - simulations are a powerful way to let you practice and try things and learn without all of the possibly negative consequences

alexf said...

Well, I think that video games can also be helpful. Two examples are guitar hero and Rock Band. What do you guys think about those? They help you to become creative and they help you learn music, which is important in life. What do you think?

Laurenc said...

I have to comment on the inner circle because my WRP relates to this. I think video games are very positive because they increase many important skills and not just eye-hand coordination. You can learn a lot about problem solving and increase your imagination which I think is extremely important in this age where we seem to be losing our imaginations.

About the sense of reality, people should honestly realize that video games are just that, games. nothing more. I don't think they seperate you from reality unless you can't tell the difference between the ame and reality

DawnielleN said...

I think that video games might actually be a good thing sometimes. Our prinicible said something about how when we are doing homework and we need a break or something, we should do something that is completely different from homework to get our mind off of it. I think that video games can somethimes be a good way to let go and visit a new place.

But at the same time too much of anything can be bad. It's not up to us to control ammount of playing.

mattw said...

alexf - I am constantly making sarcastic comments, and I have hurt people, but I think that it depends on the people. normal jokes get old, and physical humor actually HURTS

katyj said...

i think that playing some video games help students to focus, ut you have to know when to stop and you have to know that there is a difference between games and real life, you only get one chance, you can't start over, you have to do the best you can with what you have. Some people can't differeniate between games and reality, so they do things that they normally wouldn't because they think that if things go badly they have another try.

ZachH said...

Sarcasm is okay in moderation. But it can also be hurtful. It can be funny and make people laugh, but you need to know when to stop.

beckyg said...

Mattw~

I sort of agree. Sometimes you really do need to escape from your thoughts and your life and it can really help you, but your time can be spent in a lot of better ways sometimes.

jordanh said...

becky- I think that sarcasm is a type of humor, but it needs t be used wisely. SOme people think that sarcasm isn't funny and can actually take it seriously. I think that because of that, it isn't a high-quality as a good joke or pun.

stephenf said...

Alexf- I really enjoy laughing and comedy in general. I will laugh at anything if it's not perverted and I really enjoy slap stick. What do you guys think of the survey that showed that people that had lost some of their right brain thinking react to slap stick better then verbal humor?

Eric Grant said...

sarcasm is kind of like negative reinforcement - when you punish someone or an animal for wrong behavior. eventually, the person or animal just stops trying new things for fear of punishment.

mattf said...

@ Alexf

I personally am horrible at Guitar Hero and Rockband, but I do see the value of them. They increase your eyehand cooridnation and help develop your music skills. This can help kids get into music and create more musicians.

mitchs said...

Whitneys- I think that video games can be helpful to a certain extent. They can help you learn and increase your reflexes, but once you get past a certain amount of time, you have already gained the benefit and you are just hurting yourself by wasting time that you could be using to do other important things.

maddieh said...

I think play is the best sense because sometimes that is all you need. Mentally, play is sometimes the only medicine. It can help take your mind off things and help you cope. Not only does it help you learn but it can help you function emotionally.

ashleyf said...

A lot of people have argued that video games help people develop skills. But really, how many people are playing video games that help that help them learn? The majority of video gamers are playing the games that do the same as mindless TV. So even though we have the technology to make video games helpful, we use that technology to make a any sort of game that will sell.

jordanh said...

dawnielle- I agree. I think that gaming is actually helpful to release stress and have some fun. I think that if they aren't abused then they are actually helpful.

mattw said...

The only bad thing I can think of about video games is the pixels hurting your eyes. lauren's right, because we need to keep from growing up TOO fast. THAT is unhealthy

Eric Grant said...

mattf - interesting. the guy who wrote cult of the amateur thinks we're watering down art and culture by allowing too many people to do it :)

mitchl. said...

Alex, I have guitar hero, and I think that it is helpful for the brain because you need to see the notes needed to play, and memorize where the keys are on the guitar. Another game that helps is Dance Dance Revolution, because your in constant motion jumping/dancing around.

beckyg said...

I think things like the Wii and Guitar Hero are better than normal video games because you are actaully moving and more doing what you are doing on the TV unlike with normal games.

maddisonm said...

alexf- i would say the sarcasm is humor unless it hurts the person's feeling. I think that if the person "providing" the sarcasm has Empathy, then they will know how and when to limit the sarcasm to merely a funny level. What do you think?

alexf said...

Stephen –
I was really confused when pink said that people with their right brain damaged prefer slapstick humor. What was he trying to imply? I read it like 6 times, but still feel like he’s saying that without a right brain, one prefers just random moment?

katyj said...

alexf- sarcasm is my main way of getting across humor, but i am also a very cynical and pessimistic person that is quick to criticize, so i think that yes sarcasm is a form of humor that people laugh at, but it is negative humor because sarcasm is pretty much based on poking fun at other people, which they can take with a laugh, or they can be very upset and hurt by it.

whitneys said...

jordanh - Exactly! It is all about balance.


The inner circle is discussing the lack of reality in video games. If we argue that video games provide an unhealthy, unrealistic experience then what about movies and books? I know a reader or moviewatcher doesn't chose the outcomes in movies or books, however they also do take you away from reality.

maddisonm said...

I think that we have always needed Play, I do not think that this is a new sense that we need to gain. What do you all think?

jordanh said...

Sarcasm can be very funny, but it is, to agree with Eric, similar to negative reinforcement. When somebody fires a sarcastic comment at you, sometimes he means it, but falls back on "It was just a joke." to save himself.

mattw said...

eric - how does sarcasm do that? I think it could make someone tougher, and if they suck it up and laugh at themselves, it can't hurt them.

ashleyf said...

Maddie-Yes, play is absolulty the most important thing. When reality is so much and becomes so unfair, making a joke can take you up so high from feeling so low.

Laurenc said...

Alexf - I think games like Guitar Hero and Rock band are great games. They improve your eye hand coordination and your ability to understand rythum. Also the game DDR (dance dance revolution) is another great example because it is very physically tasking depending on the difficulty level.

catem said...

Alexf~I think that sarcasm can be good and bad in life. I think that it can be good because it teaches people how to recognize when someone is saying one thing and meaning another, which is very important in life (because it happens a lot). However I don't know if sarcasm can really be defined as humor. When I think of humor I think of a time when both the person making the joke and the one hearing the joke get enjoyment. When with sarcasm, one person is often hurt, and the other person starts to get entertainment out of other people's pain. Neither really benefits.

Eric Grant said...

good point from inner circle - play does not have to mean explicit games

alexf said...

maddisonm -
HAHA, i completly agree! Everyone has been saying that sarcasm has a limit, which i agree to, to some extent, but i think also that if empathy is involved it takes a whole new meaning. Wow, great point!

DawnielleN said...

I wanted to bring up a point...

" When you are playful, you are activating the right side of your brain. The logical brain is a limited brain. The right side is un-limited; You can be anything you want."

I don't think that our whole minds should be taken up by non- reality, but I think that it is great to have a balance of pretend AND the left side of the brain.
A WHOLE New Mind.

beckyg said...

MattW~

I disagree. If you spend all of your time watching the TV playing video games it is not healthy. Not only does it hurt your eyes, but it is also bad for your health. Just sitting and playing is not good for you.

jordanh said...

Ashley- I agree. I think that if somebody is willing to spend hundreds of dollars to buy a video game like guitar hero, then why not take that money, buy a real guitar, and learn something?

mitchs said...

I agree with maddisonm, sarcasm is better used by people who have empathy. If it is used by people who don't have empathy, then it could go too far and end up hurting someone. If you use sarcasm as method of humor, you need to have the empathy to realize how far is funny and how far is just mean.

Eric Grant said...

mattw - it's kind of like when you try to give someone a constructive criticism - no matter how well you deliver it and how open the target is, the target still hurts a tiny bit

Laurenc said...

@ everyone talking about sarcasm - I think it depends on the level of the sarcasm and how negative it is but like MattW said, people should be able to laugh at themselves sometimes and not take things so seriously. If its all the time then the person will probably be negatively affected by it.

ashleyf said...

It's seems that as humans, we're so very keen on figuring out how to make virtual reality. Why is this? Why do we like to get into a simulation of a rollercoaster, when at no point will we have to feeling of falling? Any thoughts?

whitneys said...

Ok, another question.

What are your thoughts on joy vs happiness? What role does Play play in these emotions?

jordanh said...

Eric- What do you think about vide games. Are they useful or pointless?

mattf said...

@Eric Grant

I could see where he is coming from. If everybody is in music, then there is not much difference. Even though Guitar Hero can get kids to want to be in music, the reality is that not many of them will actually go on to create their own music. Without games like Guitar Hero, our culture might just lose interest in music (writing it) and then future generations won't have anything new to listen to as they grow up.

hannahl said...

The military has created a video game to recruit teenagers. In it, the game is supposed to reflect real warfare. Is this a way to take advantage of highly malleable teenage minds that are constantly soaking in whatever the game tells them? How does this affect the decisions teenagers make?

mattw said...

HANNAHH - Because you don't have to live in a reality that you don't like! LOSE YOURSELF!!!! get you childhood back! don't just mature to the point where you only enjoy things with true purpose.

The best things in life have no rhyme or reason.

alexf said...

Dawnielle
I actually think that that quote is quite hypocritical. Don’t get me wrong, I am currently on the agreement side with Pink’s book :D but is it really fair to say that the left side of the brain is limited? (Just thought I’d bring that up)

mitchs said...

Jordanh- The reason people spend money don't want to spend their money on a real guitar and actually learn how to actually play is simple. It takes a long time to learn enough guitar to be able to do the things you can do on guitar hero. It only takes a couple of minutes to learn how to play guitar hero. It's a lot more fun to play songs by just pressing a few buttons then spending days or weeks practicing to just play one song.

Eric Grant said...

ashleyf - i like to think that VR can be a way to prepare yourself for R

if you are afraid of heights, you can head to the top of the tallest building in the world in VR, and then try going up an escalator in real life

jordanh said...

Whitney- I think that joy is temporary-something you get from playing. Happiness is long-lasting, more of an extended state of being

Mike Porter said...

Good point on the socializing time built into elem. schools. That is considered part of the learning experience. Are you, teenagers, expected to be "proficient" in socializing in HS?

mattw said...

sorry if that sounded offensive, but I think that video games can make you happy.

maddieh said...

Ashley- I think a lot of people are scared these days. People want that sense of a thrill but without the actual danger. Also, people are a lot more lazy and would prefer to just stay at home.

Eric Grant said...

mitchs - see my earlier comment on the cult of the amateur :)

maddisonm said...

What do you think about the quote, "Yogic laughter in a group, he says, can help people go from the conditional happiness of adults to the unconditional joyfulness of children" (Pink, 203).

Laurenc said...

Hannahl - About your earlier comment, I have to ask if you enjoy reading. I also would like to know if you have looked into any other genre of video game besides the violent one. RPG's or role playing games can have the caliber of story line that a great novel does. In a sense you are playing out a book

jordanh said...

Mitchs- Does guitar hero give you a skill that you can use for the rest of your life. Sure, it's a fun game, and I even like to play it, but some people take it seriously, and become experts at it. Why not take such determination and learn something useful.

katyj said...

mattw- sarcasm can really hurt because sometimes sarcasm is taken to far. Like my mom and me for example. We are both very sarcastic, and when she gets mad at me, she usually uses sarcasm to make her point and sometimes she takes it to far, and makes me feel very bad about myself. So to a certain extent i can see what you mean, people need to jsut suck it up, but sometimes sarcasm is just taken too far.

Eric Grant said...

jordanh, mitchs - after you play GH for awhile, you can be slightly more of an expert on what chord the rock star is pretending to play. that's learning.

mitchl. said...

hannah, I think that the army created this video game for people who are interested in going into the army or for people who can't make a decision if they wan't to go into the army. The army personel want people to see for themselves what the army is really like before they make that risky choice.

catem said...

Topic from the inner circle: I was going to go say this in the inner circle, but the topic changed. In the inner circle they were talking about how the alternate reality stops the ability to be able to function in the real reality. This reminds me of my friends little brother. He can fix a TV when his parents can't, he can remember songs word for word, he can read books, and he is only three. Since the first months of his life he was exposed to things like Baby Einstien's and other educational videos. Whenever his parents couldn't be there for him, he would just plop him in front of the TV and let him learn. He is pretty much classified as a genius. However, now when he goes outside or hangs out with other three year olds, he is so behind. Do you think that alternate realities can be a replacement for the real thing?

alexf said...

AshleyF and JordanH-
In regards to your comment WAY at the top:
I think that video games are good. Sure, too much of anything is always bad…
Video games CAN help you socialize, CAN help you improve your skills, and CAN help you “escape” and just have fun!

Laurenc said...

jordanh - I think there should be a balance. I see what you mean about the guitar but what if someone is a pro at guitar hero but also plays musical instruments? I for example don't seem to have the dedication to learn the guitar but I play guitar hero. I also play the piano and violin though so I'm getting both kinds of musical enjoyment you might say

jordanh said...

eric grant- It is learning, but are the things that you learned really useful?

maddieh said...

The thing I love about Play is that humor is a part of it but it's not neccessary. You can still play football even if you aren't funny. I think that Play is essentially just having fun.

whitneys said...

Ashleyf - As far as stimulations, I think they reassure us that we still have control over our lives. We didn't have to take the risk of going on a true rollercoaster, but were allowed the feelings of being on one knowing that it is not real.

mattw said...

My sister found some research that states that no two people's laughs are the same. Does this mean no two people have thee exact same sense of humor??!!??!!

maddisonm said...

Now you see video games for children with Dora and other little characters, learning ABCs and 123s. What do you think about this?

Eric Grant said...

catem - sounds like that 3-yr-old just didn't have a good balance

hannahl said...

laurenc- I LOVE books! Anyone who knows me knows me as a book worm because that is my escape and the reason I am opposed to video games is because they draw kids away from their love to read. Video games are someone else showing you a story, and you make a few unrealistic decisions. You do not have to picture the characters in your mind or see what is happening in the story.

Eric Grant said...

maddisonm - i used to make those games. they work. the kids learn.

mitchs said...

@Eric Grant

I have to disagree with the person who wrote the cult of the amateur. I think we are enriching art and culture by allowing the masses to be involved. Having people who can't actually play an instrument be able to sort of get to know what it feels like to play a concert might make them want to learn how to play an instrument and maybe compose new music or do something in the music field. Making the arts more accessible doesn't water them down, it just potentially adds more people to the creative fields.

mattw said...

hannahl - I think video games are just like books, because it's like you make your own movie of a story. The best part is, it can change everytime you play.

maddieh said...

Matt- I think thats true. I think some things are funny that even my best friends think are lame. Some humor comes from expeirences but some of it is just how you look at it.

Laurenc said...

maddisonm - My little brother who is 6 years old has played learning games since he was 3. They are indeed video games but they definately helped teach him how to read and learn his addition.

mattf said...

I had a question about a quote in the book that does not make any sense.

"Believe that serious people are more responsible. That's not true. Laughing people are more creative people. They are more productive people. People who laugh together can work together." Page 204 , Second Paragraph, In the middle of the page.

To me these points of proving serious people are less responsible have no support. Creativity, productivity, and laughter have nothing to do with responsibility. Any thoughts?

jordanh said...

laurenc- I agree. I play guitar and guitar hero, but some people decide not acheive the balance that you talk about. I think that this is a waste of time.

stephenf said...

Alex-

In the chapter that Daniel brought up the point on slap stick it is a way to easily enjoy something. With sarcasm or verbal comedy such as jokes, you have to be able to visulize the whole image and understand it. With slap stick you just see what happens and it's funny.

hannahl said...

mattw- How is making a movie, playing dress up, or playing with freinds not playing? I don't understand why everyone thinks that video games are the only way someone can be a child. A childhood should not be defined by video games, but REAL games in the outdoors. I lose myself in real play and I am a child when I do.

maddisonm said...

I know for me when I play when i learn or study, I remember the information better then when i just memorize the facts. I find myself doing better on tests when i get together with my friends (alex) and we make up little trick and song things to help memorize the facts. Do you think the you can remember information better when you Play?

katyj said...

mitchl- i dont think that the army wanted people to see the risks of the army, the army wanted to up inlisting, so they appealed to the people who like violent video games, so that they could get people to go "oh, look the army is actually like this. It is like a real live video game. I am going to inlist." They were trying to blur the lines between game and reality.

ParkerH said...

I think that a "rigorous" learning environment would hardly teach me a thing, except for how much rigor stinks. I would not learn as much, because I learn more when I am having fun, or am involved. I don't think rigor is a good way to learn.

Eric Grant said...

mitchs - i only half agree with cult of the amateur. i think it's up to us to learn how to differentiate between good art and bad art, just as kids need to learn what makes good online behavior. the new tools and abilities have more positive than negative effects.

alexf said...

MattW and HannahL -
I agree with Matt. I think that, whereas you (Hannah) love books, some others may not. People aren't always as skilled at reading as others, so why should they be punised for this? Video games also help you to make up a story...and yes, every single time you play, it changes!! What is better than having new stories everytime you want to play?!

catem said...

Wait Alex: I think that sarcasm is fine so long as no one is being hurt in the proccess, I totally forgot that there was sarcasm without having people get hurt. Sorry about that.

whitneys said...

jordanh - I completely disagree with you about the joy and happiness. I think happiness is a temporary somewhat fake feeling while joy is true and honest. Joy is an overflow of happiness you can't help but show.

mattw said...

hannahl - I DEFINITELY think that what you said is play, I just brought that up because it was the first quiestion. I do those same things myself. sorry to confuse you.

mitchl. said...

Jordan-People would rather play guitar hero than an actual guitar because once they have guitar hero, since they spent all that money on it, they want to master it to get their money's worth. And also, some people who have guitars don't even use them. For example, my sister got a guitar last christmas and hasn't touched it since. The reason for that is she or my family don't want to pay for the lessons to get good at the guitar. But in guitar hero, the "lessons" are free.

Eric Grant said...

katyj - the army game creeps me out because of its power as a recruiting tool. BUT the army reports that enlistees that have played it are better prepared for basic training.

jordanh said...

hannahl- Obviously you don't understand why people like video games so much. I think that video games are ok as long as it isn't your main source of play. I think that you need many sources of play to acheive the balance that everyone is talking about.

alexf said...

StephenF -
Thank you so much! that quote really makes sence to me now. Right brainers must visualize! Wow, thank you!

hannahl said...

The comment to mattw I just made was about the earlier earlier comment.

mattw- about the comment you just made... Reading books and playing video games are just not the same. Somebody already made the "movie" off of the book, you are only changing the plot, it requires no imagination to play, just to design the game.

Laurenc said...

hannahl - I do agree with you about real play. I believe there should be a balance between video gaming and actual play. Me and my friends dress up weird and dance around while playing with glow sticks but we also play video games. I think the key thing here is balance

mattf said...

catem- I am not aware of any sarcasm that does not hurt someone one bit. Usually sarcasm is directed at someone in a negative way, either making fun of them or their ideas. This seems to hurt their pride.

mitchs said...

Jordanh- No, guitar hero does not give you a skill that you can use for the rest of your life, but that's not the point. The game is only made for people to have fun with. It's not like you will learn how to play an actual guitar by getting really good at guitar hero. I agree with your point, that some people take guitar hero too seriously and spend too much time on it. Guitar hero can help your memory and definitely does help your hand eye coordination. But you're right, some people should spend less time playing and more time doing something useful. But most people play guitar hero in their free time, with friends just for fun.

maddisonm said...

laurenc- That is interesting. I think it is a good idea because it is a good way to incorporate Play with learning the facts, and it seems to work well.

mattf said...

I had a question about a quote in the book that does not make any sense.

"Believe that serious people are more responsible. That's not true. Laughing people are more creative people. They are more productive people. People who laugh together can work together." Page 204 , Second Paragraph, In the middle of the page.

To me these points of proving serious people are less responsible have no support. Creativity, productivity, and laughter have nothing to do with responsibility. Any thoughts?

stephenf said...

KatyJ- I think what you say is a very interesting way of looking at that kind of gaming. I know that I react to seeing humans and war games over an alien game or Mario. Trying to feel empathy for a character in a game is not the best way to experiance life but you can still see the same thing on TV. Violence can be infective but so can laughter so how do you know which one is best.

katyj said...

hannahl- in regard to your comment about video games vs. books, i am a major book worm to for the same reason, but i have to say that i am not opposed to video games, because not all children just love to read, and then are turned away from it to play video games. Reading may be play and an escape for you and me, but it isnt for everyone.

Eric Grant said...

mitchs - so what about games that have explicit learning goals? or games that have accidental learning goals? i'm addictive to civilization iv and can't wait for spore to come out. lots of learning there.

Eric Grant said...

karl - vid/aud just froze

mitchs said...

Eric Grant- I agree with what you are saying about the cult of the amateur. The cult of the amateur allows for more people to be involved in art, which makes for more good art. The good art that is gained is worth all the bad art that is put out by people who really are just amateurs.

alexf said...

TO ALL, (and maddison)
I agree with Maddison’s earlier comment. How do you guys feel about playing while learning? For example, as stated before, when I study best, I study and make up tricks with my friends! Is this not the best: to incorporate school and play into the same time? Why would people oppose this?

jordanh said...

mitchs- I agree that Guitar Hero is a great way to have fun, but I think that people who are going to spend soooo much time on it, they might as well learn something useful in the meantime.

ParkerH said...

Mattf~I don't think sarcasm has to be bad. I use sarcasm all the time, and I am not very mean with it. I almost always use it for fun, and the other person laughs. I can't agree wtih you there.

catem said...

On what Dawnielle said in the inner circle: I know that in my history classes that we always do these activities where we "play" and on the tests she references to the activity and then you remember all about that day and the things that you learn. So I think that play definitely helps with your memory on even boring topics.

Karl Fisch said...

@eric - try exiting the mebeam room and coming back in

mattf said...

Alexf- The one problem with this is that different people have different learning styles. While some people learn best playing with others, others have to have no distractions what-so-ever or else the material goes in one ear and out the other.

katyj said...

eric- the army game creeps me out to, and it is a powerful recruiting tool, but i think that the only reasont that people are more prepared for basic training is because they are the more viiolent part of the population and they have probably played so many violent video games, that they are already numb to the death and pain of others.

catem said...

Alex: read my comment above this.

maddisonm said...

Going off what Mattw said in the inner circle- I think that is a really good point. When do we ever experience the current age we are in? We always have to prepare for the next step, the next grade. Also, just a random question, who decides what we learn? How can they determined what should be learned in 5th grade, the 6th grade and so on? I just find it interesting how planned out our learning is.

katyj said...

eric- the army game creeps me out to, and it is a powerful recruiting tool, but i think that the only reasont that people are more prepared for basic training is because they are the more viiolent part of the population and they have probably played so many violent video games, that they are already numb to the death and pain of others.

maddisonm said...

Going off what Mattw said in the inner circle- I think that is a really good point. When do we ever experience the current age we are in? We always have to prepare for the next step, the next grade. Also, just a random question, who decides what we learn? How can they determined what should be learned in 5th grade, the 6th grade and so on? I just find it interesting how planned out our learning is.

whitneys said...

mattf - As far as responsibility and laughter. I think the quote is true. If you are completely serious, you will get done everything you need to get done. However when creativity and laughter get involved you might not get done everything you need to get done because you take breaks to laugh and relieve stress. However in a laughter enriched environment the production might be slower, but the products will be more enriched.

Laurenc said...

Hannahl - I just have to say I don't think you know enough about this subject and I'm honestly not trying to be mean. There are many games in which your personal choices in the game determine the storyline and with a book you don't need imagination either according to what your saying. the story is already set but no one says you can't take an idea and imagine more off of it. You coud come up with alternate endings or try and think up your own sequel to something.

mattw said...

that's hard to argue with, but I will just say that even if you don't use creativity, you don't in a book either. AT least in video games you can decide whather to make the character jump in the tunnel or boogey. In a book, nothing EVER CHANGES.

Laurenc said...

jordanh - I do agree with you there. If someone is just sitting in a dark basement playing guitar hero for days then that is not only wrong but creepy.

mattf said...

Whitneys- I jsut don't understand why the quote was phrased like that. Pink disproves responsibility with creativity, laughter, and productiveness. They have no direct relationship.

DawnielleN said...

I am studying about kinesthetic learning right now and I was wondering how you guys think that teachers can tend to these kids' need without causing the rest of the class to lose focus. Or do you think that they should do anything at all?

Eric Grant said...

mattw, catem - different people have different learning styles. for some, a book opens up the imagination while a game limits it.

maddisonm said...

alexf- High five!! Why wouldn't Play be inncorported into education?! It seems like the majority of people learn best when the Play.

Eric Grant said...

dawniellen - teachers should be able to find a way, like putting students in groups to manage their own activities

mattw said...

I want to bring back my old comment.

some research said, "no two people have the exact same laugh."
does that mean no two people have the same exact sense of humor?

hannahl said...

laurenc- I think I do have a lot of background on what I am saying because I am doing my research paper on it, as are you. I am not saying that video games should be taken away completely, but they just don't have the same positive effects that reading does, they have more negative. I think that as a career, video games open many doors because it is a very creative and innovative career. However, you cannot choose what the character looks like in a video game and you cannot dissect sentences or find the meaning behind the authors words or disagree with their notions. There is no depth as far as learning goes in a video game, it is purely entertainment, it is a once a week "escape". I am not trying to ban video games here!

mattf said...

Maddisonm- The problem with that is that some people do not learn well when there are distractions. It may help some people, but others will get nothing out of the class.

Eric Grant said...

maddisonm - make it happen :) suggest some play activities relevant to the subject to every teacher you know

alexf said...

TO ALL:
Why wouldn’t we always incorporate play into our studies????? I don’t be to be closed-minded, but why wouldn’t someone like that? (Does anyone not? Please, speak up!)

beckyg said...

CateM~

I definately agree. Whenever I play or do a fun activity in class, I really learn the subject more. I remeber what I learned longer and often times I want to play the learning game more. I think playing in the classroom can really help me to learn.

whitneys said...

alexf - I think play is essential in learning and education. For some reason, when we play it completely stimulates and refreshes your brain. With the brain refreshed, it is more prepared to work hard.

maddieh said...

One thing I've noticed is that a lot of these senses are connected. Play and Empathy can go together. As can Play and Design. Basically, any of them can be connected. Do you think this is on purpose or just a coincidence?

Eric Grant said...

karl - i think mebeam is down. let me know if you want to ustream; otherwise i'm fine without it. the outer circle is keeping me plenty engaged.

Laurenc said...

Hannahl - I respect your opinion and I understand where your coming from. I hope you don't get the impression i'm trying to force my opinion on you because I don't mean that at all. I just think that at least with the games I've played, there is symbolism and hidden meanings and things much like what you find in a book. They also help visual learners to see the story better

mitchs said...

@Eric Grant- I wasn't saying that you can't learn anything from any video game. I was just saying that there is not much to be learned from guitar hero except bands and the names of songs. A very popular game that just came out (Assassin's Creed) is one of those games that has accidental learning. It is fun to play, but also teaches you about the Crusades and the Middle Ages. I also enjoy games like Civilization IV and Age of Empires. You really learn a lot about how technology advanced and the names of historical leaders and heroes, but you still are having fun.

ashleyf said...

AlexF- We are watching this video in History where they experiment how fast everyone can get in thier seats. They did it once when they were able to talk, and again, not able to talk. They found they did it in half the time when they didn't talk. People can see this a clear picture of how seriousness is more efficient. But what about when you play Jepordy to study for a test? Many people get so into it and it and it becomes so extrodinarily exciting when you know a fact. This shows how students get excited about what they are learning. I am all for play in school, but there are reasons why people see play as a non-efficient way to get things done.

mattw said...

hannahl - How are books so much bettere than video games. THEY HAVE THE SAME EXACT PURPOSE. To ENTERTAIN.

jordanh said...

Do you guys think that lab (at our school) is playing with science?

katyj said...

mattw- i think that everyone has different thoughts, so everyone is going to think that different things are funny. If you get a bunch of people together, then they may laugh at a lot of the same things but some will not think that some things are funny. Everyone will laugh at different things that strike a nerve with them.

whitneys said...

To all ~So we all agree that play supplements learning, but why?

hannahl said...

mattw- their purpose is to make us think.

alexf said...

WhitneyS –
Exactly! When we are having fun, we also learn better. If someone briefly says something about the day that you were having a BLAST, don’t you go through everything that happened? Playing and laughing helps you to remember!

mattf said...

Alexf-

I do not always learn well when there are distractions. In class, some people do not mind playing around and having fun, but, when studying for a test, if they have any distractions such as friends, music, family ect. they get nothing out of studying. That is why teachers need to cater to everyone or split into groups for the good of individuals.

beckyg said...

AlexF~

I personally love play in the classroom, but I realize that sometimes you can't be playing. Although activities are fun and can teach some things very well, but some subjects can't be taught by a play activity very well. For example, I can't see teaching Algebra by playing a game. Sometimes you need to use a normal teaching method.

mitchs said...

Maddieh- I think that Pink made the senses all interconnecting on purpose. He said that you would need all six senses in the new world, so it would make sense that they can all be connected.

Laurenc said...

Alexf - Well speaking up here I don't think I play while learning...I in fact have trouble with group activities and often prefer to work alone. The occasional game is nice but mabye I just learn better when someone tells me what to do and I do it. Not really much play involved in education for me at least

Eric Grant said...

maddieh - i think they are all connected.

hannahl said...

laurenc- I respect your opinions too!
For visual learners, video games are a miracle. They are important to learning what to visualize, the only thing they do not build is the ability to visualize on your own.

maddieh said...

Everyone seems so concerned about what play (videogames) can teach you. What did Pong teach people in the 80's? Basically, nothing. The point is that it was fun and enjoyable. Play doesn't need to be a way to learn, it can also be used as a way to have fun (which as I said earlier is what I think Play should really be.)

DawnielleN said...

I think that play is something that is so important in school because I think it is really easy to only focus on homework and grades, but for me, in the classes where play is involved, I am exited to go back to them and I actually try harder in them.

catem said...

Eric Grant~ Good point on how everyone's mind is different. With that, I'm curious what your suggestion for education would be. How can you teach everyone the same things and make sure that everyone understands them with limited time? How can you appeal to all types of learning?

mattw said...

hannahl - you don't need to think to play.

katyj said...

whitneys- playing helps us learn better because when we play as we learn we make emotional connections, so we remember things better because we have something to connect the facts that are being pounded into our heads to.

hannahl said...

mattw-but you need to think to be human and not be a robot.

Eric Grant said...

maddieh - pink just gave new names to brain activities that have always been known. his skill is in interpreting them in a different way and presenting them to us so we can see them differently. i believe he has a name for that...

melissaz said...

jordanh- I do think that lab is playing in science, but not much. We aren't creating anything on our own, we are finishing a worksheet and trying to answer the questions. We do get to experiance science but I do feel that it could go so much further.

alexf said...

JordanH-
Sadly, i don't think that our lab is playing with science. I think that we are so restricted to HAVING to learn about the specific thing, that we can't experiment at all. We are so consumed with trying to get a good grade, that we can't play

Laurenc said...

Mattw - and sometimes play can be the silliest things that don't even make sense. My favorite type of play is the kind that gets me away from reality, whether it be gaming or cloud gazing or story writing!

beckyg said...

Whitney~

I think play suplements learning because we remember things we like to do. I tend to remember happy fun experiences more than I remember boring experiences. I think I learn because of play experiences because they are fun so I remember the lessons more.

catem said...

Mattw~ Could you please give an example of when you don't need to think in order to play?

mitchs said...

I agree with Maddieh. Play does not have to be a way to learn. It's also important as a kind of mental release to help rid yourself of the day's stresses. That's why people play video games like guitar hero that don't really help you learn anything. They make you feel good because you get to be the hero and do things you normally can't do.

Eric Grant said...

catem - not sure about teaching everyone the same thing, but i kind of like the idea of creating learning activities with different roles for different people. one student could design a game, another could do the research from books for the game, other students could play the game, some students could report on the game, etc.

morganw said...

Hannahl - how does playing video games turn you into a robot? What's so wrong about escaping through video games once in a while? Isn't it more healthy for you to not think once in a while?

mattw said...

ok, I want to stop this video game conversation before I offend someone.

whitney - I think play is essential because we are all human. We get bored. give us a reason to care and we will.

ParkerH said...

Personally, I can't say enough about the founding fathers. They are amazing men, and I think they deserve the title "The Greatest Generation" at least as much as the WWII generation. It does not surprise me that the pursuit of happiness line came out of them. I agree whole-heartedly, and we really do need to pursue happiness.

jordanh said...

melissaz- I agree with you because, yes we get to experiment, but then the teacher says "OK, enough of that, fill out this giant worksheet so that you can REALLY understand what we just did (and so we can grade you on a couple questions, and not all of the work you did)."

Laurenc said...

catem - I agree. everyone is so unique and its hard to appeal to every learning style. Mabye classes could be seperated by learning style but then I wonder if that would ever work... It's hard to say what works best but I'm not sure if education can ever be perfect for each individual

mattf said...

Alexf-

Next week in biology lab wwe will get to play. We are building plants out of junk that we brought in to class today. This will probably help the kids who need play to understand, so it will be interesting to see who gets something new out of it.


TO ALL: Does anybody think something like this would benefit you, and why.

katyj said...

alex- at the very end of your last comment you mentioned that we are all too consumed with getting good grades to play. Do you think that if people werent as obsessed with our grades we would actually leran more, because we wouldn't just learn things to regurgitate them and then forget them?

maddieh said...

Do you guys think most comedians are right-brained because according to the book, they have a good sense of humor and therefore know how to play. And if my theory that all the senses are connected, then that would make them right-brained.

What do you guys think?

hannahl said...

all who disagree with my crazy rhetoric- What does Fahrenheit 451 teach us about this subject of brainless people?

beckyg said...

AlexF~

Sadly, I agree. I think lab is not really playing anymore. I we all do exactly what we are supposed to do and we don't alter the experiment or do our own thing. I think labs used to be more playing with science. In 8th grade my teacher let us create our own experiments, and when we did do labs, we often got to make our own twist on them. I thought this was a very good way of playing at science.

mattw said...

catem - I guess a better way to say it is that things are generally GENERALLY more enjoyable when you don't think too hard about it.

alexf said...

TO ALL:
Thank you for responding. I now DO see that playing while learning is not good for everyone. If i can add just a quick comment...
I have a Spanish class 6th block where it is very easy for me and i enjoy it a lot! (Now, i never really liked spanish because it is just memorizing), but because the class that i am in has funny people that i joke around with and laugh with, i seen to understand everything better and everything comes to me easier. This is the only class that is like this, because it is the only real class that i can just goof around in!

morganw said...

Jordan - I don't think lab allows you to play with science. The labs we do at school have already been done. We are not allowed to deviate from the rules or experiment with them. Our labs are graded - which means there is a right or wrong answer, which means that there's nothing playful or right brained about it.

Eric Grant said...

jordanh - i feel your pain. wish i could say something more comforting than that.

mitchs said...

Mattf- I don't think building plants will help me learn at all. I think it will impede my learning. It's very hard for me to learn through play. I think that unless it is presented in a video game like Civilization, play and learning need to be separate. Play should be to have fun when you are not learning. I just usually don't associate learning with fun.

stephenf said...

Maddie, Eric-

I wanted to bring up the point I had in the innercircle that in the Declaration of Indepedence it states that we are guarenteed the un-alienable right to Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Daniel is trying to re-introduce them to a new age and time.

catem said...

Eric Grant~ That sounds like a great class where you can learn a lot. But then how do you test or grade them fairly, or is it even necessary to test or grade them?

Laurenc said...

to all talking about play and thinking - Mattw, Hannah, Cate = If you really think about it...humans are constantly thinking whether we try or not but I see what Mattw means when he says we don't always need though to play. Going sledding for example doesn't require much thought, its repetition. Sit, go down hill, walk back up, repeat until tired. but it is very fun to many people

Eric Grant said...

mattw - you should read 'flow' it's all about achieving maximum enjoyment by taking on light challenges that require light thinking

maddieh said...

Alex- That is creepy similar to my Spanish class. I am just one of those people who can just memorize things but I actually like the class because of the relationships I can form with the other people in the class.

mattf said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ashleyf said...

In the movie Eloise,when asked why she didn't go to school, she says "real life experience is the best education" (something like that). This is so extreamly true, play is the real life that should come into education. We need the real life experience the make education worth our dedication

Eric Grant said...

stephenf - daniel is appealing to our sense of national pride with that idea. he's no dummy.

alexf said...

katyj-
Yes, i think that if there weren't grades, we would learn more and enjoy learning more. Some projects, like i think Ms. Smith just mentioned, teachers sometimes gives us oppertunities to be creative, but becaue we are so obsessed with grades, we focus on just the facts and not on the creativity at all

mattw said...

I've noticed something
if you focus your whole life on school and carry flashcards in your pocket protector, you will be LONELY.
On the other hand, if you spend all your time with friends and totally ignore education, you end up STUPID.

have you guys noticed that?

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