Friday, February 1, 2008

AWNM: Symphony Period 2

February 1 Live Blogging Participants
8:25-9:24 am MST

Eric Grant:
Eric is a techie, an educator, and a futurist. He holds degrees in Information & Decision Systems and Political Science from Carnegie Mellon, and a Masters in Learning, Design, and Technology from Stanford. Eric's career began in enterprise software, moved to new media, and then drifted into education; he spent the past few years as a researcher and instructional designer at the Stanford Center for Innovations in Learning. His areas of academic interest include learning and working spaces, distributed and co-located collaboration, cross-cultural education, foresight strategy, and just about anything to do with the intersection of humans and technology. Eric lives in the SF Bay Area.

Renee Howell:
Renee is a parent of a Littleton Public Schools student as well as the Vice President of the LPS School Board.

Tim Stahmer:
Tim is an Instructional Technology Specialist working in the Office of Instructional Technology Integration for an overly-large school district on the Virginia side of Washington DC. He taught middle and high school math as well as computer literacy. For the past 11 years, he has helped teachers, administrators and others at all levels make sense of technology in their classrooms and, of course, repaired a few computers and printers along the way. These days he works mostly with the technology trainers in elementary schools.

278 comments:

1 – 200 of 278   Newer›   Newest»
Eric Grant said...

If I'm late tomorrow morning, it's only because I'm guzzling coffee.

Eric Grant said...

never mind. i'm actually up and reasonably awake and listening to some downtempo. good morning from san francisco.

Tim said...

Good morning from Virginia. Looking forward to the discussion.

aweber said...

virginia is sweet man!!!

Tim said...

Good question since I've taken drawing classes and never gotten much out of them

aweber said...

same with san fran!!!

Eric Grant said...

developing symphony: i'm a big fan of mashups and i think they're a great way to get into a symphonic mood.

Tim said...

aweber: I like it here. :-)

Eric Grant said...

but i could never create any myself. or could i?

kristenw said...

what I thought was interesting was the difference between his two self-portrait after just 5 days of drawing class

amyw said...

Mr. Grant---What are mashups?

aweber said...

kristen- ya me too. It was pretty crazy

Eric Grant said...

like tim, i have no real artistic talent. my symphonic ability is all about metaphor and crossing boundaries.

nicolek said...

I really like the idea of symphony because looking at the small things are important but we also need to focus on the overall big picture. I can see this in almost all aspects of my life, not just my learning

Tim said...

eric: I've found that I get more creative when I hang around with creative people.

BrianC said...

kristenw, Same here. It was amazing how much he learned in just 5 days.

alyssas said...

Do you think that the big picture is more important than small details?

Liap said...

tim- I toook a draw ing class last semester and I got a lot out of it. My teacher really tought me to draw what I see and not what symbols I saw. My drawins turned out so much better after that.

Eric Grant said...

amyw - mashups are songs or videos that combine two or more other songs or videos. my fave group is the kleptones.

alexd said...

Kristin- i agree with you. The transformation of his drawings were amazing. Almost unbelievable.

aweber said...

since i play violin and other musical instruments, I think I understood this chapter best out of all of them...
it really is about the big picture

chelseas said...

I agree with what Mark said about a picture being like an equation. I think that it all needs to go together. Personal symphony allows you to do this.

amyw said...

And what does everyone think is a good way to develop symphony? I think listening to symphonies is a great way (although it may seem obvious). It's interesting how all of the different movements, whether quiet or loud, fast or slow, mesh together into one big musical piece.

Eric Grant said...

alyssas - i think both are important and that there are people who are sometimes better at one or the other.

Tim said...

Does understanding the big picture mean that you also understand all the pieces that go into it?

Eric Grant said...

ooh - cooking. good one.

Liap said...

alyssas- I think that the big piture is more important, but the little details have to come together perfectly to make the big picture look okay.

BrianC said...

Alyssas, I think the small details are important but if you can't see how your part fits in with the whole thing then you can't really be the best at it.

Lukez said...

kristenw - I agree that he really improved a lot in his drawing. I think that really shows how much more important symphony is than it seems. At first I didn't really think it was as important as the other sense that Pink talks about, but by the end of the chapter I really thought that it was just as important as the other ones.

Louiseb said...

Kristen- I thought that was interesting too.
I have drawing this semester and I have had atleast 5 classes but I have not seen much if any difference in my drawing ability.

aweber said...

tim- yes. I believe it's almost essential to understand all the components, like in an orchestra, to get the big picture

amyw said...

Tim---I also feel more creative when I'm with creative people. It's also the same when you're with people who think about things from a different perspective: you think differently too.

alyssas said...

So do you think that the ability to percieve small details or the big picture tells which side of your brain is dominant?

phoebef said...

tim- i think that in order to understand the big picture you do have to have the genral concept of the details. Without it its like trying to write music with no knowledge of time and key signitures, it just doesnt work.

nicolek said...

How do you think symphony could be better incoorperated with our learning system?

aweber said...

louise- the guy he took it from also charges more than free... so he probably was better than our teacher here

Eric Grant said...

sometimes seeing the big picture blinds you to the little details. but in a collaborative world, you can solve that by getting many types of talents on the same team.

chelseas said...

I think that innovation allows us all to "go outside the box", and create our own things. I think that symphony shows how we all can be creative in our own ways. Symphony allows us to all think and intrepret independently.

kristenw said...

alyssa i think you need the small details to make the big picture like in an orchestra every instrument is important but when your listening to it your listening to the big picture

alexd said...

To go along with what Maddie is saying in the inner circle, anyone can invent something however I think it takes a certain kind of person to improve something that is already on the market.

Tim said...

aweber: actually a music director relies on their first chairs to understand the details of the music so they can concentrate on the big picture of what everything sounds like when put together.

Eric Grant said...

nicolek - project-based learning

aweber said...

phoebe- but what about a non-classical song? lyrics and chord progressions are more easily understood than time sinatures and keys

Lukez said...

tim - I think that in order to really understand the big picture you have to understand everything that creates it. You can get a very broad and not very clear idea without looking at all of the smaller pieces, but to really understand the big picture its better to understand all of the smaller pieces as well.

amyw said...

tim---Yes, in order to understand the big picture, it's essential to understand the pieces that go into it. Otherwise, you can't possibly understand how they go together and create the big picture.

Javonm said...

I think that drawing is a great way to utlize btoh our right and left brain thinking. the left brain thinking is incorporated during the choose of shades, colors, angles, circles, details, etc. Then the right brain puts these all together and creates the big picture within the end. The right brain is also utlized during the creation and choosing of the colors shades alongside the left brain. The left brain says that this needs the color blue, and the right side helps to explain why.

markg said...

tim- You might not understand the little peices all the time. Some of the time you could just understand the big picture and not what lead to the big picture. However, we should understand the little details so that you know where the big picture is going to show up.

josed said...

nicole, I think that having an invention class would help increase symphony. I have the details up on my PLJ under "Answer to Mr. Pink's Question."

Here's the URL:

http://personallearningjournal.pbwiki.com

Javonm said...

I think that drawing is a great way to utlize btoh our right and left brain thinking. the left brain thinking is incorporated during the choose of shades, colors, angles, circles, details, etc. Then the right brain puts these all together and creates the big picture within the end. The right brain is also utlized during the creation and choosing of the colors shades alongside the left brain. The left brain says that this needs the color blue, and the right side helps to explain why.

Louiseb said...

Alyssa S- I think that the small details are what make up the big picture. I don't think that one is more important than the other but they complement eachother which makes them equally as mportant.

kristenw said...

nicole - I think we could incorperate all the subjects into each other because life is a mixture of all of the subjects

Eric Grant said...

alexd - i wish i was an inventor. i'm much better at improving something on the market than coming up with something from scratch

chelseas said...

I think that you need to have a basis that you can build on, and then go from there.

Tim said...

"How do you think symphony could be better incoorperated with our learning system?"

nicolek: that's a good question. Do you think the way that classes in high school are put into specific departments gets in the way of the symphony of your learning?

BrianC said...

amy, I think the best way to develope symphony is not by only listening to symphonies, but by being a part of one. All the great symphonic artists listen to each other while playing and they change their playing to match each other. So, if you can, you should try participating in a symphony and not just in music but in in plays and projects too.

nicolek said...

Eric Grant- I agree with doing more projects. Do you think that would work for the more L-directed classes like math and science?

Liap said...

nicolek-
I think that in order to incorperate symphony into our learning system we need to have our classes( the small details) come together to compliment each other so that our education(the big picture) looks better and has given us more out of it.

aweber said...

eric- think about Manchester united... they are amazing and have talented players that do there own part, but then they all help win for ManU. Now Newcastleon the other hand... haha lia :)

caitlina said...

What would you invent if you could invent anything to help synthesize something in the world?

johnb said...

I think what Pink is trying to say is that you need the details, and you need to understand them. In this new age you need to go be able to go beyond the details to see how they all relate.

phoebef said...

aweber- yes but the music still needs to have time incorperated into it. music needs a beat of some sort, without it the music just doesnt sound right.

Eric Grant said...

kristenw - great idea. there are some schools out there that do projects that cover multiple subjects all blended together.

aweber said...

meant Newcastle*

Lukez said...

alex - I think that to improve something that already exists you have to invent something that can be added to the product or replace some piece of the object to make it work even better. So really, I think that both types of invention take an inventor to make it happen.

NickB said...

@ Eric--> Even though you aren't an "inventor" aren't you an innovator if you can improve something? After all, the computer was around before bill gates, but bill just made a smaller and better computer

alexd said...

Tim- I think by incorporating different subjects with eachother and connecting everything. That would create more of a symphonic feel to learning.

aweber said...

phoebe- ya i was just saying some are better at either/or

Javonm said...

AlexD- If you think about it you are just as much of an inventor as the perosn who made the original product, sure you didn't start from scratch but you imrpoved someone elses invention utilizing both sides of your brain to synthesize this new idea for this invention, and that is inventing all in itself.

Javonm said...

AlexD- If you think about it you are just as much of an inventor as the perosn who made the original product, sure you didn't start from scratch but you imrpoved someone elses invention utilizing both sides of your brain to synthesize this new idea for this invention, and that is inventing all in itself.

chelseas said...

I think that we can all be innovative in this class, but there are very few other classes that incorporate this element. I think that we need to expand our own thinking in oreder to make new discoveries.

josed said...

I think that Symphony is one of the aptitudes that we are best at naturally. All of us doodle(d) in our nootebooks. Lots of us have taken a drawing class or a design class. Some of us have even taken summer shcool classes for Symphony activities. My question: WHY is it so natural for us to use Symphony?

kristenw said...

Did anyone else want to draw a picture upside down like Dan learned to do in his drawing class because I wanted to see if that acually works because his reasoning was correct

Eric Grant said...

are there areas of learning that don't need symphony?

Louiseb said...

Nicole K- I was wondering the same thing.
I think that music would be a good way to incorporate symphony into our learning system. When I am at home doing my homework I always listen to music because I think it helps me focus, but at school listening to music while working is against the rules.
It is sometimes hard for me to switch back and forth from one way of learning to another and personally, I don't really see the harm in music while learning.

MollyS said...

alyssa-
I don't think that there is a spicfic side of the brain the ties in with if you are a big picture person versus a detail orienated person. I consider myself more of a right brained person, yet I am detail orienated on some things and completely big picture on others. This is the reason that this chapter confused me a little bit, how does this topic of Synphony tie into The Whole New Mind? Is it just another theroy, or does it really apply to this new idea?

aweber said...

jose- i still doodle in History :)

Eric Grant said...

the math wars of the late 90s were a battle between basic skills and analytical problem-solving. guess which won?

Tim said...

Math does have some creative aspects. There are often multiple ways to find a solution to a problem and, even more often, multiple solutions to a problem.

nicolek said...

Tim: I think that in a way it does because I see all my classes seperate parts and its harder for me to see them all as one big picture that all connects. There is a class the combines both enlish and history which I think is a good idea because it shows how two seperate subjects can fit together to make a bigger picture.

alyssas said...

Nicole K.- I think that doing more projects would help in classes like math and science because those subjects are more structured than other classes, like art where you are free to express your creative side.

Liap said...

aweber-
Good connection. Its true with soccer and also with other team sports; if you only have one or two good players, they can onnly carry the team for so long until the team eventually loses because everything doesn't flow. For example, if all the good players were on defense, then the other team would never score, but neither would the first team, because they don't pay attention to the offense.

kristenw said...

jose - thats a good question maybe we were meant to be right-brained thinkers and we forced ourselves to be left-brained

kristenw said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
BrianC said...

There's a lot of questions about how symphony can be incorperated into the learning system, but don't we already use symphony in school? I mean, we almost always have group projects where each individual works on a piece and then they all put it together to make one final project.

aweber said...

liap-
yes. like how ManU likes to beat Newcastle :)

alexd said...

I feel like my science class is interesting and creative but I have a hard time imagining a Math class that would be as interesting as this class.

Eric Grant said...

alyssa - important to remember that pink is just exercising symphony in this whole book. he's tying some shaky theories of neuroscience to the new economy that is better described by others. he's being an inventor by combining these ideas into something sort of new so we can see it in a new light.

johnb said...

From the inner circle, I think you can and should challenge the way things are and how they are taught. It doesn't matter how old you are. Anyone has the potential to improve something. Little kids are not bound by the "common idea" which we are all taught. Even though their ideas are usually simple, they are inventive and can be useful.

Lukez said...

Louiseb - I agree with you that music could help us incorporate symphony into learning. We did it in this class already with the wonder woman songs and listening to Mrs. Smiths ipod while we work. I wish that we could get more music into some of the other classes we have.

chelseas said...

I agree with Clara about how we need to discover how and why something happens in an experiment. I think that we need to discover things on our own, and not be told all of these things from the teachers.

MollyS said...

Mr. Grant-
I think that there are places in the world that do not need Symphony, in fact I think that if all things had Symphony then there would be much to much perfection in the world. If we wanted to connect this to Design, sure, things like drawing have significance, but what is the utility?

Liap said...

Tim-
I agree. Math can be creative, and people are coming up with new ways to do problems everyday. They have to be creative or they would just be stuck on the old-fashioned way/

Renee Howell said...

Question: When do you find yourselves interested and excited about science?

Eric Grant said...

uh oh! the purposed of school! huge topic!

Tim said...

Is it possible that we have too narrow a definition of what is "math" or what is "science"? The applications of topics in these general categories go way beyond just equations and fixed answers.

aweber said...

luke- they need a music writing class. they have classicalmusicstudy, but thats not the same thing...

phoebef said...

jose- i think that it is natural for humans to use symphony because for some people it is the only way they feel they can release their right brain. I am not an artistic person at all, but i do play an instrument. Other people feel that doodling is their way of releasing their right brain

josed said...

So, if we're forcing ourselves to be left-brained, couldn't that have negative effects on us? That's like if we want to do something, and then we can't, and then we feel bad. So, shouldn't we integrate right-brained activities for our health as well as our success?

Eric Grant said...

mollys - i love that answer. reminds me of a quote from caddyshack: the world needs ditchdiggers, too.

alyssas said...

Brian- That's true. We even did that for last semester's final when we got the entire class involved in making an outline for our final paper, and we separated into groups and put it all together at the end.

chelseas said...

I can relate to Stef. I didn't have to do the flip book, but I did a project like that in 7th grade. I went outside every night for a few weeks, and looked at the moon's position in the sky.

amyw said...

I think it's so frustrating the way we're just told to do something in school and we aren't allowed to interpret it in our own way. (With the exception of this class, of course.)

Lukez said...

renee howell - I am excited in science when we do more interactive things with everybody in the classroom. I like that a lot more then when we just sit and take notes on the things that the teachers say. I also remember all of the interactive lessons better then the notes.

Eric Grant said...

josed - i'm not a neuro guy, but i think the answer is yes. but then again, i'm too lazy to try and really retrain my brain. i like it the way it is. i'd rather just find the right way to leverage what i have now. in a symphonic world i can find other people to work with.

kristenw said...

I just made a semiconnection ok so if as jose said we are naturaly good at seeing the big picture and using our right- sided thinking then why don't we incorperate more pictures and diagrams in school???

MollyS said...

I was wondering if anyone read Mr. Stager's response to A Whole New Mind? It drew me in and made me think twice about what Mr. Pink is saying.

If anyone wants to check it out, here is the url... sorry I don't know how to link on blogger...


http://www.stager.org/blog/labels/Daniel%20Pink.html

Liap said...

amyw-
I agree. Teachers think that by trying to use our right brains for projects, we're trying to slack off.

amyw said...

Mrs. Howell---I get excited about science when I have a teacher that's excited about it. If they like what they're teaching and make it fun, then I have fun too. If they teach it in a dull way and just make us sit there and take notes, then I dread it.

BrianC said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
aweber said...

kristen- bcuz they won't think outside the box.

chelseas said...

Mrs. Howell-
I agree with what Luke said about how interactive activities are easier to relate to. I also can remember then more.

alexd said...

Amy- I totally agree with you about the frustration aspect of not being able to do work in our own way. This also goes along with the design element of school. This class is the perfect mix of instruction and individuality.

aweber said...

my bad... because* not bcuz

Renee Howell said...

For students to be more creative and pull in other ideas, I wonder how many students a teacher should have in a class. It's hard to evaluate what students learn when they use innovation.Any thoughts?

alyssas said...

Amy- I agree. I have in several classes wanted to do a project a certain way because it would show my understanding and creativity, but the teacher wouldn't allow me to do it that way. If we were allowed more freedom on projects in school, do you think the products would be more creative and expressive?

nicolek said...

Renee Howell- Last year I used to be very excited about science mainly because I had a teacher that I loved. He had a great design for the curriculum and he would show us empathy so we had a better teacher/student relationship. Also, we got to do a lot of experiments and hands on activities. But this year science is my least favorite class because we take notes almost every day and I have a hard time seeing how it will relate to my everyday life.

Louiseb said...

Tim- I think that there are many instances where you can understand the big picture and all of the pieces that go into it, but, I also know that there are lots of times when this is not true. In my Science class we recently did a difficult project. I had no trouble understanding the main idea (the big picture), but when it came to the smaller aspects (the rest of the pieces) that we had to incorporate I was completly lost.

amyw said...

kristenw---I think it's because our society hasn't made the switch yet. We're SO focused on left-brain thinking that we don't bother with anything else.

Eric Grant said...

mollys - tim and i were both at an event with gary this past weekend and i heard him rant about the book. he makes a good point. the whole book requires a huge leap. but the world pink describes resonates with me even if he doesn't do a good job of proving it.

josed said...

Amy-- I agree. In my French class, we always do busy work and we ALWAYS do things the teacher's way. We can't blend what we learn with our every day life, and have symphony because we use books that are from a decade ago! We can't relate the French culture and the French system of government if they are still talking about Minitels in the excercises! We don't learn because there's nothing for the knowledge to stick to. It just fades away in a few day's time

Tim said...

Is it possible to create a "symphony" class between something like math and music or science and social studies?

Renee Howell said...

kristenw: I actually took classes like Dan Pink took - Drawing with the right side of your brain. The results are amazing.

phoebef said...

amy- i think that we should be able to do the projects and work in our own way, but then doesnt that favor the right-brianed thinkers? Now instead of being judged on our knowledege we will also be judged on our creativity.

chelseas said...

Maddie from the inner circle brought up a good point about how teachers in elementary school taught us for the whole day. Maybe we should integrate this in some other way.

Javonm said...

Tim- I like your idea of connecting everything is really good. We have an integrated english and history class here at the school that incorporates learning then facts and learnig the stories behind them, Is that kind of what you are talking baout? Putting classes together to learn about both certain subjects.

amyw said...

alyssas---I think projects would get a lot more creative if we had more freedom. It seems like some teachers are just trying to squash our creativity and don't want us to be creative.

aweber said...

tim- music requires math science history and english.

caitlina said...

If we were allowed more freedom Alyssa, I am sure that we could wow teachers, and hopefully we could be allowed more freedom, on different projects.

kristenw said...

aaron - haha true

Tim said...

Also a large number of scientists do music as an avocation.

josed said...

I think that it is possible to create a symphony class, if we can figure out how to relate two unrelated subjects!

Louiseb said...

Renee Howell-
I find Science the most exciting when we do experiments. Regularly, we sit and take notes off of a power point which gets old really fast, but when we do an experiment it is unpredictable and different which makes me want to pay attention and get involved with what we are learning.

MollyS said...

Ms. Howell,
I get excied about science when my teacher is excited about science and when we are talking about things that will actually affect my life. Sciece gets such a bad reputation for being the most boring class of the day, yet if everyone tried as hard to have fun in Science as they do in, say, english, then maybe they would enjoy it all more.

alyssas said...

Eric- I agree with your opinion of A Whole New Mind. Do you think that large leap in your thinking is something that we need to transiton into "The Conceptual Age"?

Eric Grant said...

phoebef - that's a great point. many students do very well with the standardized testing system we have in place right now.

alexd said...

Tim- I do think that it is possible to incorporate those classes but I think in our time it would be hard to get something like that going in our school system because it is so much of a change.

caitlina said...

Has anybody ever had a class that has integrated music, with your studies? (Besides elementary school)

Lukez said...

tim - In the inner circle right now they are talking about a social studies and Language arts. I think that that is a little easier then combining to more left brain focused subjects like math and science. I could see it being easier to combine two classes where one is right brain and one is left brain. Ex: Math and music

amyw said...

phoebe---yes, that would be an example of right-brain thinking, but now since we aren't really allowed to do things our own way in most classes that's more left-brain thinking. Follow the directions. Do the project. Nowhere in there is there room to be creative and put your own spin on it.

kristenw said...

renee - that's really cool it makes me want to take a class and see if it changes the way I look at things in life. Did it change the way you see things.

Liap said...

josed-
I agree! A UGE part of learning a language is understanding the culture. There are a lot of expressions in Spanish that don't make sense to us because we don't understand why they say it. For example in Spanish, to say I forgot, the literal translation is he(or she, depending on whether or not the object is masculine or feminine) forgot me". We don't understand why they would say something that sounds insane in our culture unless we are taught about their culture as well.

johnb said...

The only problem with combining classes is that it would be difficult to have focus, and we would never acomplish anything. Perhaps if we had one class dedicated to looking at something from all angles and discussing it.

Liap said...

Sorry I meant HUGE not UGE

Eric Grant said...

alyssas - not sure. i think it's coming whether we make the leap or not. thomas friedman's book describes the new world much much better, and with real causes and drivers, but pink's book is much more about the people that will be in it. so for me the leap has been to synthesize other sources that do a better job.

aweber said...

john- interesting idea

josed said...

Molly-- I too think it's exciting when science is used in ways we can relate to! And even then, it can get pretty advanced. For example; gas prices are rising, so people can relate to alternate fuel. We can have pretty advanced concepts taught if we just could relate them to our lives

Tim said...

"The only problem with combining classes is that it would be difficult to have focus, and we would never acomplish anything."

johnb: in that case, is it possible that the focus of a particular class (like math) needs to change?

Louiseb said...

Molly S- I read his response too. I remember when we first started the book we blogged about how we all agreed with Pink, I wonder if we all just agreed because we hadn't been exposed to any other opinions. When I am reading now, I really think twice about what Pink says and I am trying to really form my own opinions instead of just excepting the ones that I had read.

Eric Grant said...

i've seen what the inner circle is talking about - a symphonic approach to learning - and it's beautiful. new tech high schools and science leadership academy.

Renee Howell said...

Yes, it improved the way I see things both physically and when I think about them. The book Drawing with the right side of the brain, by Betty Edwards is the type of learning you want to do. It's not a regular art class where you draw still lifes.

johnb said...

liap-
You are definitely correct. Understanding is required for everything in the world. Think about it. How many of our problems are related to a misunderstanding?

amyw said...

Jose---It was like that for me in French last year. We did worksheets. We did homework. We did work off the board. The class was just so mundane and easy that it got boring. And it was hard to remember what was being taught because it was so uninteresting. There was no thinking outside the box.

kristenw said...

john - that would be cool if we had all our normal classes then had a like "big picture" class where they mesh all the classes together

nicolek said...

I really like what Ms. Smith was saying because like Molly some people are good at things that don't seem to fit together but that is why we need to use a whole new mind and start seeing things in a different perspective

MollyS said...

Mr. Grant,
When I started reading the book I never thought that I would have any reason to doubt what the author was saying, and what he said really made me look at what was said diferently, and not feel like I have to agree with everything that is said.

aweber said...

louise- that's interesting. were you just not open to it at the beginning or too open minded?

Tim said...

One of Pink's conjectures is that the world is changing so that symphony is becoming an essential element of the work world. Do you think the lack of "symphony" in your high school education will hurt you when you enter that world?

Liap said...

Mr. Grant-
What do you mean you've seen a symphonic approach to learning? What do the New tech high schools do differently?

Renee Howell said...

louiseb - Great that you are questioning what you are reading. Dan Pink would LOVE that.

amyw said...

johnb---How do you know we would never accomplish anything in a class like this? It could change our thinking and make us remember the info better if we thought outside the box and kind of "connected the dots," so to speak.

alexd said...

Molly- Im weird like you too. Im a Language Arts and Science person because those are the two subjects that I enjoy most. And also to go along with that I think it is also a steryotype that people who are good at art then they are good at Language Arts but that is not necessarily true either.

Eric Grant said...

louiseb - that is an essential skill in a world of instant information and questionable credibility. that's why many teachers have to ban the use of wikipedia as a research source.

BrianC said...

Tim, I think some classes, like algebra, need to be like they are. I mean, there's not m uch room for experimentation if the students don't even know what the basics are. If each student has to rediscover thousands of years of experiments and research then nothing new would ever be discovered, that's why those type of classes are important.

MollyS said...

Louise-
That is EXACTLY what I saw, and it's funny because I don't think that it ever really occured to us that maybe what Daniel Pink said wasn't the perfect answer

Lukez said...

nicole - I think that if you are really good at two things that don't seem to fit really well together, maybe if you were taught the other subjects in a different way then you would get those just as much as the ones that you do get.

Eric Grant said...

liap - both of those schools are project-based and they combine subjects in interesting ways. students are really aware of the learning process from day 1 and get a huge say in how it all happens. in some sense the students run the school, but the adults guide them.

chelseas said...

I think that teachers fear new things as well as change. I also think that teachers do not want to experiment with this, especially because we have to learn for the test. Teachers are not willing to try new things and ideas because it has never been done before.

aweber said...

eric- that's really cool.

Tim said...

"I think some classes, like algebra, need to be like they are."

BrianC: is it possible that the availability of handheld computers (no longer just "calculators") make some of what you do in algebra obsolete?

alyssas said...

On the inner circle they are talking about if we should stay in the same class all day or change classes. My history teacher told us that it has been provent that students attetion span drops off after about 20 minutes. So maybe we don't need to change classes everyday, we just need to change activities about every 20 minutes to keep us interested.

amyw said...

nicolek---In a sense I think with this left-brain society, we are almost afraid to see things from a different perspective. It's been ingrained into us so much that we never try to see things from a different perspective. I know that up until this class this year, I had never thought of any of this. Like learning differently, and actually having a teacher that doesn't tell us exactly what we need to do...she lets us think outside the box.

josed said...

From what I can tell, what we have said today is that Symphony is necessary to learn. Last week we said STORY was necessary to learn. In DESIGN we said that we need design in our classroom.

In conclusion; the three aptitudes that are "high concept" as Mr. Pink calls them, are required to learn. If we don't use them, then what we learn doesn't really "stick."

What experiences have you had from your EARLY (I think it will only work if it's before we've been in school for too long)childhood where you used metaphor to learn, or remembered something through a story, or you designed something, to learn a fact.

Eric Grant said...

it sounds like there's a vocal majority that thinks there are some holes in pink's theories. what are they?

MollyS said...

Alex-
It's odd though, becuase I don't enjoy math at all, but for some reason it just makes sense for me... usually, and I dont even find it that fun. But this is why this is such an intreaging subject, why is it that people can be good at completly differnt things, even ones they dont like? and how does this relate to Symphony?

Liap said...

Tim- I think that the fact that there is little or no symphony in our schools will only affect us a little bit. I mean, look at all the people who are R-directed thinkers who went through the same schooling we do, a little less R- directed even,who are staying with their Right brains.

Tim said...

"So maybe we don't need to change classes everyday, we just need to change activities about every 20 minutes to keep us interested."

alyssas: excellent point!

aweber said...

tim- not really because you still learn what to do and need to know that in order to use your "handheld computer"

amyw said...

Question: if someone wrote a book about how the Information Age was here to stay, would we believe them as much as we believe Mr. Pink? (I'm not saying he's wrong; I'm just wondering.)

johnb said...

Commenting on what nick said:
Even Mr. Pink stated that a world only run by right-directed thinkers would be chaotic. There would be no organization, no time, etc. Don't get confused with what he is saying. The left brain and the right brain are essential. In this time, we need to learn how to use the right brain more than we have in the past.

Javonm said...

Jose- I am not really sure I think our biggest problem is that we have to many classes that incorporate left-brain thinking and push right brain thinking all the way to the side. Let's see: History, Science, Math, Foreign Language, Computer Apps. Etc. about 75% of my courses are all left brain thinking. We need to incorporate right brain ideas into these classes or we will continue to just process and download information and soon it won't be quick enough.

Lukez said...

Mr. Grant - Although many of my teacher do ban the use of wikipedia, one of my teachers encourages it because she really wants us to learn to question all of the information and try to figure out what we think is true and what we think isn't true for ourselves.

Eric Grant said...

amyw: depends on who it is and how well they tell a story.

caitlina said...

I was wondering, Where would we be without our teachers? How would we learn?

Louiseb said...

Tim-
I think that the lack of symphony will make it harder for us to enter into that world. If we have never had symphony before how will we be able to accept it later on in our lives? I feel that as we go on and get older, it gets harder to accept new ideas because you have sort of already formed you own opinions of things and with every year that they become more concrete, they get harder to change. With the idea that symphony doesn't exist cemented in our brains, how can we change that as soon as we leave school?

Tim said...

"not really because you still learn what to do and need to know that in order to use your "handheld computer"

aweber: but does that require understanding the details or the "big picture"? I see the computer as a tool for the details, allowing the user to concentrate on the big picture.

aweber said...

it depends amy. what if it was some random guy from Moracco? Or maybe it was the CEO from GE? It sorta depends on the person... credentials

Liap said...

Mollys-
It is so interesting that people can be really good at things that they don't like to do. I am also really good at math, but I always dread going to math class because it is not fun or interesting to me.

Eric Grant said...

lukez - that is the teacher that i want. someone that can embrace and criticize and question what's out there instead of just banning it.

amyw said...

Has anyone ever used symphony in their lives without realizing it? (Like before you read this chapter?) Maybe, for example, if you're doing homework, you suddenly see how everything you've been studying connects. Like in science, everything builds upon itself. You learn about atoms, then elements, then chemistry, then the universe, then parts of the universe (animals, weather). AND IT ALL CONNECTS.

kristenw said...

tim - thats a good idea because I know when I'm on one thing for to long I get really bored and when we start something new my mind is ready to learn all over again

Tim said...

Agreed. Pink does not say that everything and everybody has to become right brained. His thesis is that much of the world (probably the western world) will require more right brained thinking.

aweber said...

tim- good point. the computer does details while you get the answer. i have one of those TI 80-whatevers. they help but i still get an A in geometry.

Eric Grant said...

pink's greatest credential is that he tells a great story, which is very powerful (as he says). stager has his own set of skills. questioning their credentials is the responsible way to learn.

BrianC said...

Tim, That's true, but if someone never learned the Pythagorean Theorem and they went on to be a construction engineer. Wouldn't it slow them down if they had to look up how to find what the length of a beam should be. Also, if they never learned it, how would they even know how to solve that sort of problem? I'm just saying, where would anyone be if they didn't have the basic skills?

Liap said...

I agree with what Molly and Louise are saying: I read the book and was like "Oh, is that how it is? Okay." Which is a perfect example of just regergitating information instead of chewing it over until I formed my own opinion.

Tim said...

I've known Gary Stager for many years and he often says things as a way to get people thinking out of the norm. He wants you to question those ideas that "everybody" seems to be accepting.

caitlina said...

I was thinking about it Amy- I think I use it everyday, in my learning, and multitasking.

johnb said...

About what molly said in the inner circle:
At our age we are "gullible." At our age we are definitely more malleable by nature. We are young. It is necessary but difficult for us to formulate our own opinion.

amyw said...

caitlina---I think without teachers we would be nowhere. Everything would be chaotic. Because even if you have a teacher that lets you think outside the box, they still have to give you a certain amount of direction.

Eric Grant said...

"the future is already here - it's just not evenly distributed yet" - william gibson

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