Thursday, January 10, 2008

AWNM intro-3 Fishbowl Period 5

103 comments:

jordanh said...

Hi guys,
I have been home with a 100-102 fever since Wednesday. I should be back by Monday, but I plan to Fishbowl with you guys tommorow! Talk to you then.
Jordan

annes said...

Hi Jordan- we are starting in a second

jordanh said...

OK

lesliel said...

Poor Jordan! I hope you can blog with us!

Tylerg! said...

this book is interesting

mattw said...

Right away I noticed how on the cover page the little head-shaped hole had binary code overlapped with musical notes. I think this shows the combonation of the left and right brain. But I looked in the index, and it said next to nothing about music. It only mentioned beethoven or Mozart.

whitneys said...

Ya! I hope you get better!

maddieh said...

Hope you feel better Jordan.

Okay, I had a question. If the right brain controls the need/want for beauty and things that are aesthetically pleasing, then is it the right brain that keeps everyone obsessing over beauty and the idea of "perfect"?

jordanh said...

yeah, i like it, too. it really made me reconsider some things that I thought I would want to do in the future, a real eye-opener

mattf said...

People are definately born left brained or right brained, right?

Tylerg! said...

well mattw, it kinda goes with the symphony section, and the left brain, that seems like it is one of the only mentions

ZachH said...

I disagree with stephen. I think that it is the way someone is born.

whitneys said...

I agree Matt! I mentioned the front cover in my journal. It really interested me.

lesliel said...

Maddie: good question. I'd say yes. Because, if it was the left brain which controlled that, it just wouldn't make sense. What else would control it?

Laurenc said...

Hello everyone!

I'll some of my initial thoughts on the book.

I love Pink's sense of humor but I still find myself getting bored with all the statistics and long explanations. That may also be because I am by no means a non fiction reader...

Other then that though, I enjoy learning about how the right brain is going to come into greater importance especially because I am a very right brained individual

maddieh said...

Matt F- I don't think anyone is born one way or the other. I think that is something you can kind of grow into. But I do think that your upbringing has a lot to do with it. To me, it seems like people who are good at math usually have parents who taught them how to do math at a young age.

mattw said...

maddie h, I'm not sure what you mean... I think you mean the left brain is more "perfectionistic", but you said the right brain wants beauty...

jordanh said...

maddieh- do you mean does the right brain make people freak out about how people look? because I think that if so, then i think it is a right brain process of picking up on social norms, like pink said if you forgot to grab the key ingredient in a main dish, then you hear two things when your spouse says i'll go to the store-
the left brain says she is going to the store and the right brain says she's mad

whitneys said...

You know Matt I was wondering about that myself. I would almost disagree with the fact of being born right or left brained. We each do have special talents perhaps in Math or in English, but I think that our culture might also have an affect on our brains. I don't know, what do you thinK?

mattf said...

Maddieh- I agree with the parents thing, both my parents are left brain oriented, and so am I. I however think it is hereditary and is already determined for you.

Tylerg! said...

I believe that genetics does play a role in the book. My parents whether or not I got their genes, have strong left-brains and I do to. It isn't how I developed or how I chose, I just literally find it impossible no matter how I try to draw or design or find the big picture since I can remember

Ryad said...

Maddie: I also agree that it is the right brain making our society obsess about beauty. I think it's just another example of Danial Pink's theory

jordanh said...

laurenc- i could agree that reading the statistics can get a little boring, but I think taht with such a revolutionary point that it is necessary to bafck up his ideas with statistics for skeptical left-brainers

mitchl. said...

I really found this book interesting by all the knowledge and facts that Daniel Pink has and put into this book.

lesliel said...

So, Dawneille, in the middle circle just said something to this sort and it made me think of my brother. My brother doesn't really know how to take a compliment, or maybe he just doesn't yet have very good people skills. However, he does love to draw and make things. Does not having people skills mean he's more left brained?

mattw said...

whitneys - I don't at all think you're born right or left brained. In fact I bet most people are actually in the middle. Like Leonardo DaVinci - he was an amazing artist, but he was also intelligent in that he designed one of the first helicopters.

Laurenc said...

MattF - I think people are born right or left brained but they can work towards becoming more Left or more Right. I think it deals with personal preference too and like someone in the middle said, how you are raised. I grew up listening to all sorts of music and i mean ALL sorts. My mom loves art and my parents used to take me to star trek conventions when I was a baby.

Nowadays I am a musician, love to draw, and LOVE strange clothing and dressing up for no reason..(conventions are my passion ^_^)

maddieh said...

Okay kind of clarification about my question. What I mean is that Daniel Pink said that the right brain is what makes a want something pretty an d the left brain wants something that works. (Think of the toilet brush.)

So that got me to thinking, people are really caught up in the way people look. (Think of super-skinny itty bitty models and that whole controversy) So wouldn't it be the right-brain's fault that we are so obsessed with looks??

jordanh said...

the idea of being born either right or left brained is interesting, and i agree with whitney that some parts of it are cultural and some are simply genetics-like tyler said

Laurenc said...

jordanh - yes I agree with you. SUch a book does need statistics, I just find it hard to pay attention to them because I was raised on fantasy novels :)

jordanh said...

Maddieh- i think so. since the right brain is artistic and picks up on social norms, yes

whitneys said...

About your question Maddie, I think that we satisfy our left brain by things working and events working logically. But that stuff does not satisfy our right brain when something works, it needs to have more depth and perception. So I think that the left side is more perfection and the right side is more searching for meaning.

Selenam said...

maddieh-I think it's a learned trait, because little kids aren't as concerned about their image as teenagers are, and everyone over the course of their life gets exposed to commercials that say, "You're not perfect enough, so by our product and be more perfect" and people who are obsessed with their image, and put you down because they think you're not obsessed enough. But, after it's learned, I do think it is the right brain that controls that.

mitchl. said...

Yeah i agree with Jordan and tyler that people are born with either right or left brain thinking, and that you don't achieve either one as you get older, I think it is genetics that give you either one.

ZachH said...

Matt F- I think people are born right or left brain. Like Pink said in the video (yesterday at the end), Lawyers can enjoy art in their free time, but usually artists don't like practicing law or balencing a check book in their free time

mattf said...

Jordanh- Statistics are essential for a non-fiction book. The author needs to have some fact to back up his reasoning. Without it, there is no proof.

jordanh said...

mattw-that's a great example. i mean, this book doesn't say tha we should trash the left brain, we need both, still.

Laurenc said...

Maddieh - I agree with Selena. We see people go nuts over models and especially girls want guys to like them and guys like models so it's just the way we are raised. We want to be better, prettier, more popular, etc

Tylerg! said...

That is true jordanh, statistics are one of the most important parts to a non-fiction book. I can't just make a statement and expect people to believe me, I need to have facts. This book is borderline on fiction and non-fiction.

lesliel said...

Along with what Selena said, there is a part of the book that talks about how an artist person goes into a bunch of different grades and asks, "Who is an artist in here?" and he realized that in kindergarden every kid raised their hand, and by the time he was in a sixth grade class, nobody raised their hands. I think R, or L- brained thinking develops over time.

maddieh said...

Selena- Good point. I think that kind of goes along with the idea that we can grow into whether we are left or right brained. But at the same time, I think that kids do care about how things look, especially food. For example, a lot of kids are very picky about how their food looks... how it is arranged on the plate, the color, whatever. So I think that you also are kind of born with that.

ZachH said...

I had a question:

I think Mr. Pink has made a sucessful arguement that right brains are becoming more nessicary because of Abundance, Asia, and Automation but how is that going to affect society? What is going to change?

mattf said...

Jordanh- I agree with the need for both. In order to be successful, we need to be able to function in a logical manner, but we also need to be creative. That is where the problem lies for me....

Tylerg! said...

It just seems like Daniel Pink thinks that the left brain is just their to support the right brain and not essentaial past that.

jordanh said...

mitchl- i have to disagree a little bit with you (and myslef after re-thinking this), i think that a little bit of left/right brain thinking is based off of genetics, but i also think that with the right stimulation, right brains could be improved, like when Pink went to the art school in NYC and improved his portrait greatly

Ryad said...

I think wheter you are right brained or left brained might have something to do with genetics but how you grow up has a lot to do with it. My dad is very left brain in almost everything he does while my mom tends to be right brianed in her actions. When I was growing up I spent more time with my mom and I have become a very right brained person.

mitchl. said...

Yeah i agree with what jordan said about needing both of the parts of the brain, like how one side controls the opposite side of the body and the other side controls the other side, Daniel Pink made a great point on this like how yin always needs yang etc.

jordanh said...

tyler- i have to disagree, i think that he thinks that the left brain is very necessary for life, but just not as mcuh in the economy anymore...or is that what you meant???

mattf said...

Zachh- Society will have much more artsy and design jobs. There will be a lot less computer programming jobs and other jobs that involve sequences. Instead, we will need creative people like painters and architects.

maddieh said...

ZachH- Well I think that with all of that happening in our world, we will have to find something new to support ourselves. It seems like eventually, jobs that can be shipped over seas will become obsolete in America. So I think that it will kind of be seperated where a lot of left-brained thinkers will be overseas and Americans will become more artistic and right-brained because we need to fall back on that. Probabally wouldn't be for a few generations, but it could happen.

Tylerg! said...

I did, but as a left-brainer, I can't understand how if I just suddenly become an artist I'm going to better the economy if I'm not an enginner. Computers can come up with statistics, but we need builders and hard workers, some of which are left brainers

jordanh said...

zach- great question, i think taht everything is going to change. it feels like the right brain has been sort of shut out from the info. age, so i think it will be interesting when that happens to the left brain.

ZachH said...

I disagree Tyler. I think Mr. Pink thinks that the left brain is important. The left brain is still needed for thought and language. I mean other animals like dogs or fish don't remember much after a day or so (for a fish it is probably only a few seconds) but Humans have the abuility to remember for years afterwards. Im guessing memory is left brained and we need that just as much as we need art and writing and creativity.

mattf said...

Jordanh- Very good point about learning how to draw in school. However, did he actually develop his right brain or just refine his abilities?

Ryad said...

MattF: The problem with left brain jobs being moved to Asia or given to computers is that while more professions in the arts might open up you can only create a certain amount of those jobs.

whitneys said...

Maddieh- That is a really interesting thought! I our obsession over looks is linked to our right brain because our right brain controls our emotions and the lack of self confidence and the need for people's approval is totally an emotion. The models is an example of our search for meaning. By peoples approval they are seeking for meaning in their life.

Tylerg! said...

I know, but he makes the statement on the cover that the rightbrainers will rule. If he is willing to do that than millions will be furious that he doesn't think the left brainers will have a chance soon. Zach

jordanh said...

tylerg- my dad is a general contracter. on the outside he looks like he could be on a football team, but yesterday I asked him, after reading the Design chapter, if he needed creativity to build things. he said that there is math involved, but he also says that he needs a lot of skill in desgin to make things like bars, houses, anything....

maddieh said...

ZachH- I agree. There is no reason why either side of the brain should be considered "lesser" or unneeded. He is just trying to break that stereotype that the left brain is what "makes us human".

jordanh said...

Mattf- i thnk that he stimulated his right brain, and in response his abilities got better and refined.

lesliel said...

Agreed. Daniel Pink is saying that having good right brain will be helpful in the future. He's saying that a lot of jobs will be moved over seas. But, not all or every job is going to be moved. There are still going to be oportunities to get that job, just less than there would have been. Left brain thinking is still going to be important.

mattf said...

Tylerg- I agree with you. The economy will need left-brainers to succeed, and I really doubt that I can change my way of thinking (80% Left to 20% right) to more balanced. I am just not creative and cannot change that.

jordanh said...

i think the arguemetn could be made that we aren't really human without one side of the brain...

Tylerg! said...

True Jordanh, I'm not talking about the actual real world, I'm talking about Daniel Pink's opinion. If he is willing to make a statement, about the left brain be lesser than the right than why is it that I should try. I can't suceed in any thing other than left brain activities.

ZachH said...

I hadn't thought about the title meaning A "Complete" New Mind. I thought it meant A "Completly" New Mind.

lesliel said...

You're totally right, and Daniel Pink says that at the beggining of the book that the right brain can't survive without the left brain and the left can't survive without the right.

mitchl. said...

Jordan's idea just goes back to how bad we need to use both of the hemispheres of our brain, and i think that he actually means that if you already have a left brain, then if you learn to use your right brain then you are using all your abilities and then you will be able to rule the world...Does that make any sense?

ZachH said...

Tyler-He never says Left Brains is less. He just says that Right Brains are on the rise.

Tylerg! said...

Leslie I agree, but it seems like she is contradicting his thoughts.

jordanh said...

mattf- remeber how Pink admitted in the video that he was very left-brained himself??? I think his point is that we should utilize the large or little skills that we have in our right brains

lesliel said...

I have just realized something. People on this blog who are more left brained tend to not see how the whole world is going to change to right brained thinking and they also tend to dissagree with Pink. On the other hand, the right brainers, such as myself, though its a close call, tend to be able to see how this can all happen.

mattf said...

Jordanh- I appreciate your sympathy, but I don't think I will change.

Tylerg! said...

Zach, if they keep rising and left brainers get eliminated completly I have no future, I can't learn to be a designer or artist or architect. I need something like a nerologist or ER doc. Where the job doesn't take processingof steps, it takes quick analytical thinking.

maddieh said...

I have kind of noticed that everyone thinks that if they are left-brained, then they are kind of in a rut because they aren't creative. Being right-brained involves more than being creative. Yes, it is a part of it but right-brained involves more than that.

mattf said...

Lesliel- good observation. Maybe us left brainers are scared of change, or we "can't see the whole picture".

Tylerg! said...

That is because lesliel, he is not saying that your kind of brain isn't going to go "extinct". He is congratulating you, so that is an obvious thing to say.

whitneys said...

Selenam - I agree yet disagree with your comment about that the obsession with image is a learned trait. When we are younger, we are still learning and trying to satisfy that left brain with learning how to talk and read and spell, but once we have mastered that stuff, it opens up the right brain to work. Yes we do use our right brains when we are young, but as our left brains mature it opens the door more to our right brains.

jordanh said...

tylerg- i don't think that Pink is trying to say that the left side is less then the right side, or worse. at its simplest forms, we really need both, but i think that he is also saying that right brainers will rule the future, so i could imagine why you are a bit nervous about that.

ZachH said...

I know i already asked about society, but i think it might affect school too. I mean isn't being a teacher a left brain job. Think about what he asks about Asia, Abundance, and Automation. I think this class caters to all of these things. The laptops fir with abundance and makes this class special. Ms. Smith works well with kids and know what it takes. She helps us and is real easy to approach with questions. I don't think a Computer or someone in Asia could replace this class. But some classes aren't like that. Some teachers and classes could be changed as a result of this.

Do you think the school will change because of Right Brain thinking?

Tylerg! said...

Jordanh, im not at all nervous, I just don't think that he is right. If I wrote a book about how left brainers will rule the future and they willthink of new software for computers that can design and create just like the right brain, half the world would be with me and this conversation would turn. I think he is biased, but if he wouldn't have made that statement on the cover I might feel different.

jordanh said...

tylerg- i am also very interested in beoming a (medical) doctor.

Do you guys think a doctor could succeed in the Conceptual Age???

lesliel said...

But you're exaggerating tyler. Pink is not saying all left brainers are going to go "extinct" he said himself that right brains can not live without left brains and vise versa. He is saying that those jobs are going to lessen but not neccessarily get rid of all of them. He's not like a Hitler you know.

mattf said...

I doubt right brain people will rule the world. Analitical people will still be able to process things quicker than right brainers, and right brainers will not be able to use computers to compete with them.

mitchl. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tylerg! said...

I realize this lesliel and as I said earlier Pink seems to tell me that the left brain is just their to support, "the better half" the right brain.

Jordanh, i don't believe so, as Pink says, computers will do it for us, I'm a quick desicion person and with right brain age we need to stop and meditate and process everything. Left brainers cannot do that, they think on their feet and decide what to do no matter what the situation.

ZachH said...

Tyler- Doctors and Lawyers will always be around. Even if a computer can give you a divorce or tell you whats wrong with you people want to have a human interaction. They want a person to examine them and tell them what is wrong or to explain their case to them. A computer can't relate to people and people cant relate to a computer. I don't think L-brainers will ever go away.

mattf said...

Jordanh- Docters (medicine) will succeed. They need to do surgeries that computers cannot do. I am looking into be a doctor (medicine) and have watched surgery. Computers could not handle the many different cases that vary by pacient.

Tylerg! said...

I know that, I'm talking about Daniel Pink's opinion. He seems in my mind to disagree

lesliel said...

So, computers can do what left brains can do. Computers can't do what right brains can do.

maddieh said...

Jordan- I just want to point out that people will always need doctors. (and I can totally see you becoming a doctor).

If anyone watches Grey's Anatomy, they will know what I'm talking about. On last night's episode, there was a lady who said she could heal people with energy and all this stuff. (Which seems very right-brained to me, albeit kind of New-Agey) But in the end, she needed a medical (left-brained) doctor to save her life. I know its a TV show, but I think that this is a way that left brain and right brain need eachother. Plus, it had to do with doctors.

Selenam said...

mattf-I'm confused. What do you mean when you say right brainers won't be able to use computers to compete with left brainers?

Ryad said...

Mattf: Right brained people can stil do left brained things. They can still process facts but in a different way that may be more "creative". They can still use computers.

jordanh said...

yeah, guys i definately agree. i think that the human touch is indespensable in certain jobs, and i don't think that a a computer could make a patient feel as good a a human could with conversation and such

jordanh said...

yeah, guys i definately agree. i think that the human touch is indespensable in certain jobs, and i don't think that a a computer could make a patient feel as good a a human could with conversation and such

melissaz said...

I am showing this to my mom, she is very interested in what we have been doing!!

jordanh said...

My Dad was shocked when I told him that I received full points on Friday from my own house and computer. This technology is amazing.

mitchs said...

ZachH- On whether or not people are born right brained or left brained, I think that they are born with a tendency for one side to be stronger. But, what you learn can also have an impact on what type of thinker you are later in life. Left brained people can learn to do creative, high touch, high concept things and right brained people can learn how to zero in on answers and use reasoning and logic. It's not like if you are born one way you can't change.

mitchs said...

I agree with Laurenc, Pink does have a good sense of humor, but he uses too many statistics and long explanations for me. He really does follow his formula for a good speech, he repeats himself a lot.

mitchs said...

Maddieh- Yes, it would be the right brain's fault that we are obsessed with looks. The left brain would ask whether or not the person is functional, but the right brain asks us whether they are beautiful.

mitchs said...

Mattf- I disagree, just because new jobs will require high touch and high concept, that doesn't mean that all computer programming and jobs that involve sequencing will be wiped out. Computer programmers will just have to become more creative and find something they can do that cannot be automated, such as writing new codes and coming up with original ideas.

mitchs said...

I disagree with Pink, I don't think right-brainers will completely rule the future. I think that right-brainers will stay the way they are, but in the future left brainers will develop more creativity. I think that people who can use both sides of their brain equally well will rule the future.

mitchs said...

Good point Tylerg. This can be argued both ways. I guess if left-brainers created a way to automate design and creativity, then the left brain and not the right would be ruling the future.

mitchs said...

Mattf- Can you be sure that in the future there won't be a machine that is invented that can take the place of a surgeon? Given the right programming, a computer could perform the same procedures as a surgeon does today, and probably be more precise and quick about it. If a computer had codes that told it what to do for any medical case, doctors could be completely replaced.