I have a question: does Lady Macbeth know that Macbeth masterminded Banquo's death, or does she just think Macbeth is seeing Banquo's ghost simply because Banquo was one of his best friends and not because of his guilt? Or does she even know that he's "seeing" Banquo's ghost?
AmyW I believe that she knows of the kill-I think that Shakespeare expects us to know this due to the relationship that we've seen Lady Macbeth and Macbeth share. I believe that she also knows this because she helps escort the guests out of the castle and comes up with a lie for Macbeth. I think that this would further proove that Lady Macbeth knows about Banquo's organized killing.
Why does Macbeth trust the witches so much? Seriously, what's to trust about people who have led you to murder then dissapear while you're talking to them?
josed---I think Macbeth trusts the witches so much because he liked what they said to him, that he could become king and have all this power. He could be a superstitious person, trusting people who disappear while you are talking to them. Maybe he's a gullible person, i.e. he believes pretty much anything. But mostly I think it's because he liked what they told him.
Does anybody have any idea how Macbeth found the weird sisters? I mean if they are these mystical being that travel all over all the time, how the heck would he find them? Any ideas???
Does anybody have any idea how Macbeth found the weird sisters? I mean if they are these mystical being that travel all over all the time, how the heck would he find them? Any ideas???
Does anybody have any idea how Macbeth found the weird sisters? I mean if they are these mystical being that travel all over all the time, how the heck would he find them? Any ideas???
Catem - I think we're just supposed to assume that Macbeth went back to the place where he first met with/saw the witches. Since they are metaphysical, they were expecting him and met him there.
Ok I was just curious to see what other people thought about this: If the apparition said no one born of a woman could kill Macbeth, then that means no human can kill Macbeth right? I kind of took it as a force like his own ambition or something mystical would be his downfall. What do you think?
Why do you all think The Weird Sisters chose to show Macbeth appparations instead of just telling him what he wanted to know? Was it just for dramatic purposes or do you think it better symbolizes what going to happen...
I'm also wondering why the first apparation was just a head...Could it relate to someone who was beheaded?
Why is Macbeth trusting these apparations so much?
They're creepy images coming out of disgusting ingredients set out by some witches who gave him the idea to kill the king and Banquo which is still giving him guilt and other craziness. Why does he keep asking for more problems from the witches?
What are we supposed to think about Macduff? I mean, at this point in the play, I would be cheering him on to go and take down Macbeth, but Macbeth is supposed to be the hero; who is the "good guy" anymore? Macbeth goes around killing practically anyone anymore, but Macduff is the enemy of the protagonist. Why couldn't it be a normal plot where the hero is always the good guy, not switching between good cop, bad cop? Darn it, enough with the confusing plot twists! Also, I bet that Macbeth's going to commit suicide; if he can't be killed by men, then maybe he'll end up killing himself. What do you guys think?
Maddief-I think that this all depends on what your interpretation of Macbeth is. Macbeth could be planning of committing suicide, but he could also be killed by an animal, or something. The witches might give him a potion to make him forget thing, or make him become too wrapped up in himself. This would not be a man killing him then.
Also, if he is killed, then who will take over as the king?
keke, i think he's trusting them because the witches had predicted his future and were correct and since the apparitions were there with the witches he just kind of believes. I don't really think MAcbeth is that bright personally
Kekek, I agree with your comment about why Macbeth trusts these apparitions. Since Hecate was unhappy with the witches, these could be total hoaxes. They may be trying to kill Macbeth, too. Also, Macbeth only focuses on the good things about him, and right now. He doesn’t think about the long term effects. Stephenf, I did notice the dagger on the front cover, and the shadow that it casts. I agree with what Laurenc said, and I also think that it could relate to his big ego, as well as the power that he longs for, and now possesses. These are a few of my comments!!
Rya i don't think that Macbeth wanted to kill Lady Macbeth for any other purpose than that she was the wife of Macduff, becuase he wanted to and your reason: he is completly phycho. And i agree with you that Lady Macduff is being a little absurd when she says that all liars should be hanged. If that happened i think that everyone would be dead; i know i would be.
ryad---Macbeth killed Lady Macduff just as a "precaution", like how he planned to kill Fleance. And yes, like you said, he's completely physco (and evil). He's become a cold-blooded murderer.
Rya, thanks! presonally i think that scene was put in there to make the apparition come true "beware of macduff" remember? by killing macduffs family, macbeth is only causing more anger from macduff and i think that is going to be the reason why hes going to have to "beware of macduff" i didnt get to share that in class and i thought it was a good idea =D
Just food for thought here, about the man born of woman thing: wouldn't anyone who was ripped out of the womb because the mother died have been able to kill Macbeth? And considering act 3.5 was written by someone other than shakespeare, couldn't those have been real spirits in the original? And am I the only one who thought that it was possible Macbeth was HALLUCINATING? Because: he knows where the witches were(it was a place with a door, since Lennox or Ross were guarding the entrance, so it wasn't the heath), they magically disappeared, and the spirits were surreal to say the least (bloody kid, a baby holding a TREE, a floating head in armor). Like I said before, just food for thought...
Now, on to the homework! Since we were supposed to use a quote, and say whether we agree or disagree, I'll put mine in! Oh yeah, just a prelude to what this may lead into: literary analysis. So, here's my assignment:
Commenting on the punishment of traitors, Macduff's unnamed son comments: "... The liars and the swearers are fools; for there are liars and swarers enow to beat the honest men and hang up them"(Shakespeare, Macbeth, 61-62). Here, the son expresses the belief that there are enough liars and swearers that the few honest men could not hold up against them. I, for one, disagree. There are enough good people to keep the prisons running. There are enough good people to be policemen. Truly, the men who lie and swear are few and far between, or else we would see a lot more violence.
Now, to my questions!
Why would Malcolm use the stuff he said to see if Macduff could be trusted?
Could someone explain a little more on what the 3rd apparition is saying. Is he saying that the forest will have to rise aginst him, or everyone from his castle in Dunsinane Hill to Birnam Wood will rise against him?
SCENE TWO: -When Lady Macduff says that she can just go to the market to buy husbands... that is wierd. Since when can you buy husbands or wives for that matter? I don't think that she means it literally, but can anyone clarify?
SCENE THREE: - Do Malcolm and Macduff know that Macbeth killed King Duncan?
-I thought it was really rude when Macduff said, "We have willing dames enough..." I thought that was horrible. You have to read the context around it though.
-Okay, you know how Malcolm gives that whole speech about how he would be horrible if he was king? At the end when Macduff gives that outburst, Malcolm says that whole thing was a lie? Why did he do that?
-When they are talking about King Edward, they said that he gets powers from heaven so he can heal people? I don't get it.
If anyone can clarify for me, I'd sure appreciate it!
I was wondering who sent the messenger? And also I think that othwe things would make you a traitor other than swearing and lying cause if that were true today a lot of people would be considered traitors, so maybe it just deoends on the time period of what are the qualifications of a traitor.
Leslie that is an awsome idea. MorganT- when Lady Macduff says that she can just go to marked and get a new husbend I think she means that becuase of who she is she can get any man she wants. Also i think that Malcom and Macduff might have guessed that Macbeth killed Duncan which is why Macduff has made ally's in England.
Can anyone clarify what in the world the third apparition was saying? I don't really get it. And I also have a question on the homework (apparition chart). What are you guys doing for the images? I don't really want to look them up if you know what I mean.
Sorry, guys. The apparitions are just confusing me. Is the second apparition saying that no woman will harm Macbeth, or no one born from a woman will harm Macbeth? That would be everybody I thought. If it is the first option, why does Macbeth not need to kill Macduff?
madisonm- the third appartion is saying that Macbeth will be safe until the forest which is 12 miles away moves up to meet his palace. morgant- Malcolm wasnt sure he could trust MAcduff. He wanted to know whether Macduff was a good man or just wanted anyone but Macbeth as king
Morgant- i think there is more to the story. if you notice, the apparations contadict eachother is some small way. in the third apparation it says that macbeth will be safe until the forest comes to his palace. Why would he need to worry about that stuff if he cant be killed. i think there is trickery behind the words or he interpets them to mean something different than what will acutally happen
stefo-Thanks for your comment. Okay, so the second apparition says that no one that was born of a woman could harm Macbeth? Did I get that right? You do have an interesting comment though. That is a very good observation. I missed that.
maddisonm - the 3rd appiration is saying that Macbeth can only be defeated after the forest mentioned starts encroaching on the palace where he lives. Also doesn't it seem to you that since Macbeth cannot be harmed by anyone born of woman, and won't be vanquished untill the forest encroaches the castle, that Macbeth will die of normal causes and Fleance will just show up to take the slack? Because the withces seem to always tell the truth, but not the whole truth just the part of it that will cause Macbeth to make the most chaos.
Katyj - I think that Fleance will become king after his forces have canquished Macbeth. I do not think that Macbeth will be killed though - I think he will end up living a lonely, desolute, aweful existance trying desparetly to make up for his wrongdoings. Also, I have this sinking suspition that their is a curse on him and that's what will prevent him from dying. His punishment will be worse than death - having to live with his mistakes until he has fixed what he wronged. Just a theory. Does anybody else think that's a possibility?
Ok, well i'm just saying this, and i know people will probably dissagree, but who ever said that the witches were alwas right? We all know that they just want to create confusion, and telling lies definitly creates confusion. Or did people not tell false profaceys back then?
Alexf, people difinetly told false prophecies back then, and people probably still do. My 7th grade teacher "prophecied", but he was wrong often. Macbeth takes their word probably because they are supernatural and I would probably take a supernatural's word too.
Maddie H.- I agree with you when you said that since no one born of a woman could kill Macbeth, then the force of his own ambition will be his downfall. It also kind of seems like if that is true then the apparition was flat out telling him that he is just like a tragic hero and that his ambition is his downfall. I was also a little bit confused on what happened between Macduff and Malcolm. Could somebody explain it to me?
alyssa s.- i think that what happened between Macduff and Malcome was that Malcolm was seeing if he could trust Macduff but i was also confused at the end. Did Malcolm find Macduff to be trustworthy?
In period 5, we have not yet gotten to the part between Malcolm and Macduff, so sorry nicolek. I do have some questions on the scenes before that though. First, I was a little confused on the third apparition. Did he mean that the forest would literally move, or just the inhabitants of the forest would move? Also, who do you guys think the messanger is? It seems odd that a random person would come in and warn them of their death.
maybe the woods moving meant that like the trees wouldnt move but the seeds that grow trees would blow closer to the castle and grow. and i think the messenger was probably a guy who saw the murderers coming toward the castle at fife.
i agree with ryan about the messenger, but i think that the trees will be more metaphorical. we know that the only thing that magic controls in the book is the weather, so, i think that magic won't mpove them, so i think that the actual woods won't move.
i really don't have any questions... i did on friday, but the sub didn't let us use laptops so i forgot it. i agree with ryan too that the trees moving is that the forest will grow closer to the castle: which would take an incredible amount of time. btw, the song "the pretender" by the foo fighters, is another song that challenges the system, which is good song. it would be good to bring up in challenging the system.
With the whole moving trees thing: when things are not in order, the weather changes. And weather is in nature, as are trees, trees are a symbol or nature. And because it is the ground inhabitants that are moving and doing weird things instead of the weather, this could represent how everything that you know now will change. Sort of like a turning poin in the story. this theory is a little far fetched but...any comments?
question: what is the 4th apparition? There was another vision of the eight kings, was that an apparation or was that just the witches?
Has anyone else been wondering about how Macbeth is going to be challenged if no man can harm him? If the witches always tell the truth (even if it is not the whole truth) it seems like he's safe, but if he is how can there be much more to the play?
Maybe he's going to be challenged by some force of nature?
Clarao- I think that the witches were saying things to make Macbeth get a bigger head. In the 'added' scene Hecate says to the witches that they must make Macbeth think he is invinable or something right? I' not sure about any of this, but those are my thoughts.
Does anyone know what was really the importance of the Lady Macduff and Son scene? All i got out of it was the murder at the end
I found that it was pretty wierd when one of the apparitions said that no one of woman birth would be able to overthrow macbeth. But maybe since he can't sleep, that would drive him insane, and he would die by himself. Also, another apparition said that the trees would actually move to the castle, but mybe macbeth misinterpreted this, and he might move his castle to the woods.
Act four was a bit confusing to me because I didn’t know what the witches were talking about. I knew what they were prophesizing but I didn’t know why they were doing it. Why they actually lying to Macbeth about all of these things just to make him cocky or were the prophecies they told really true? And also, how much does Lady Macbeth actually know about Macbeth?
Ok so I am really confused! Banquo is dead and he only has one living son right? So then how can Macbeth overthrough him if it fourtune for him to have kings as sons? The Apparirions conflicted with eachother in so many ways. Do you guys think that this means that Macbeth gets a say in wich one he chooses? or are the whiches just instill a false sence of power so that he will screw up everything? Macduff is very interesting! He kinda is sightly like Macbeths former self! Any Ideas...
MollyS, I think that scene with Lady Macduff and their son is to show that Lady Macduff doesn't trust Macduff. But i also dont understand the importance of the son being their.....?
I think the son's there to show that Macduff has a family, and to give someone for Lady Macduff to talk to. I also think we're supposed to compare him to Fleance or something, but in the murder of Banquo, banquo was killed and not his son, while in the more recent murder, the son was killed instead of the parent. That might mean absolutely nothing, but I think Shakespeare is trying to tell us that the more Macbeth tries to fight what might happen, the more likely it seems it will come to pass.
rsabey- I'm not sure either, but I think that the witches are just screwing with his head. They might also be telling the truth, because so far, they haven't lied. Lies are bad. Withes are bad. Witches don't lie. (Witches aren't bad?) Fair is foul....
Some quesitons I hade included how does a forest just get up and move. I also was wandering why Macduff began to believe Macbeth after he siad he was just kidding about the cruel things he would do as a ruler. the apparitions why macbeth is so paranoid after the second apparition that still has to kill Macduff even though no one of woman born can harm him??
You have to think about what Macduff knows compared to what we know. He doesn't know that Macbeth killed all those people, to him Macbeth is a trustworthy king. The forest I have no idea, maybe some natural disaster, like an earthquake will happen and move the wood due to the disturbance in the natural order. I was also wondering if the witches needed supernatural ingredients to wield magic, or if the can just cast it.
Well, I think that the witches are probably telling some truth, but spinning that in with lies so that it al kind of sounds true, but actually none of it is the whole truth. I agree with Mac. You really need to think about what the characrers know versus what you know. We know that Macbeth is a murderer and everything, but Macduff does not. From what he ha seen Macbeth has appeared loyal to his country and his king. Now that he is king, why would that change?
What I am wondering is why he keeps going to the witches. I mean last time they told him something, he ended up killing his best friend and his king! I don't think I would want to trust someone who caused that to happen very much.
dawneille, i think the messenger might have seen the murderers coming or somthing because it doesnt explain how he knew. possibly he was at the gate or something and the murderers wanted in and he had to question them for their purpose and the messenger might have just guessed. thats just my personal opinion
Dawnielle- The only reason that I can think of is that servents and messengers hear things that others don't because people tend to ignore them and think they are stupid. Or the messenger could have carried the message to the murderers and thought he should warn Lady Macduff. Sorry but thats all I can think of.
lesliel- I think that Ross didn't want to break the news to Macduff so suddenly. He wanted to break the news "softly"(if that's even possible) I guess. That's one theory. There are other ways to interpret that.
Ross didn't tell Macduff at first because i don't think he really wanted tp break it to him. Also he isn't really lying, because they are doing well in heaven, and he is only trying to keep it from Macduff because he is afraid that Macduff will take his anger out on him.
Lesliel- Well Ross starts talking positive saying that they are well. I think (like soneone said in class) that he was maybe refering to the whole " they're in a better place" thing. Then he breaks it to him. It is alot to tell one man that everything he loved is dead.
Near the end of scene three, Macduff says that if Macbeth escapes, then heaven forgive him. Does this mean that Macduff would be okay with Macbeth still being alive?
Hannahl- HI! I think he is saying that if he gets away he will have a baaaaad fate. I think he is refering to how bad his punishment would be in "hell" I guess. He is almost saying that even though he hates Macbeth he would almost feel bad for him becuase of the fate he would recieve.
I am upset with Macbeth he made a right choice at the beginning, when he didn't want to kill them, but now he is so far in it makes me mad. I can't wait to see how Macbeth ends up
Hannahl- No, Macduff is saying that if Macbeth gets away, then lets hope that heaven is on his side, because I will pursue him. Maybe not pursue, but get some sort of revenge. Plus, more people will want Macbeth gone. I certainly hope that they want the same for Lady Macbeth. I hope this makes it clearer.
It makes it a bit clearer. Yet, still I am thrown of by the word forgive because that is different than if he would have said "heaven have mercy on him" or something like that.
Macduff is also saying that heaven help Macbeth because he will be needing it. So, "Let's hope heaven is on his side because he's going to need it when he is dealing with me!"
tylerg!- I agree 100% with you! I felt pity for Macbeth at the beginning because it almost felt like he didn't have a choice. But now..... he is just killing senselessly. Now I do want to see how he will cause his own downfall.
hannahl, i think that the "forgiveness" meant that when he dies, whether or not macduff can kill him in time he hopes that heaven will forgive him by the time he gets up to the place between heaven and earth (can't remember what it's called)(it's a place where you wait for your sins to be forgiven and become pure before you go up, and if your sins are too bad, or you arnt completely sorry for them you cant go to heaven) thats just my personal thought. though i can see why you're confused because it does seem kind of kind of him to ask for heaven to forgive macbeth.
OH! i totally just thought of something... if anyone gets this by the test tommorow. Because of the 2nd apparitions words the "nobody born from a woman will ever harm macbeth" couldn't that mean that macbeth will kill himself? What if his guilt and regret overcomes him and he decides to sacrify himself?
WOAH!! haha i was just thinking again, i do a lot of thinking here. but this is on the same thing. k: no man born from a woman. a woman can kill macbeth! like in lord of the rings with Eyowen and the King of the Nazgul! (sorry i get really excited here) but a woman could totally be the one to kill Macbeth! what if Lady Macbeth completely loses it and kills him!!! AH! im excited. =D
lesliel- Well, Macbeth couldn't harm himself because he was also born of a woman. Everybody is. But, maybe the prophecy just meant other men. That is a good insight!
on your other comment: A woman is also born of another woman. But, again, maybe the prophecy was just warning Macbeth about men. That is also a good insight! That would be a very interesting ending if Lady Macbeth ended up going 'loco' (not that she isn't already) and killing her husband!
I have a question now: Why is there so much farm and nature symbolism in Macbeth? I'm confused on that. We probably talked about it in class, but I didn't quite catch it.
dawnielle- I think that maybe the messenger overheard Macbeth plotting. Maybe he did, and maybe he didn't. Then he rushed to Lady Macduff and warned her.
About the forest thing. Leslie gave a really good idea about the forest thing. Maybe Macbeth will have most of the forest cut down and have the logs transported to his castle. Then the forest would have 'moved' to his palace. That was a really good idea Leslie!!!
I know this question is kind of late but I was just wondering if someone could clarify a little, why Malcolm is telling all these lies to Macduff? I know he doesn't trust him but that won't get him anywhhere lying?
melissaz---Malcolm is telling these lies to Macduff because he wants to see if he can trust him to help him in his quest to regain the throne. They're false and he doesn't intend to do any of the stuff; he's testing Macduff.
melissaz- I agree with amyw. Malcolm is just trying to see if Macduff is trustworthy. He is not so sure of Macduff's intentions, so he tells lies about himself to see what Macduff's reactions will be. Then he finds out that Macduff really is trustworthy, and takes it all back. I hope this can clarify a little bit for you.
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I thought it was odd how Macbeth expects to live out a long and normal life, and to die a natural death at a "ripe old age". Usually when people have gone as far as he has for power, and done as many foul things as he has, they tend to gain the desire to live forever. That's like the opposite of Macbeth. He thinks he's nearly incincible, and continually convinces himsef that he cannot be killed. Other "evil" people are all to aware of their mortality, and they try to find a way to become immortal, and that is usually ho they meet their imminent DOOM.........
Ok, here's my question which nobody answered... Couldn't someone born by a C-section by male doctor kill macbeth? Oh yeah, in the semifinal act it is revealed Macduff was born as I said, so... yeah. But still, he's so ambitious he doesn't think to cut the forest down or think about C-section.
Yeah, I'm going to share my thoughts with Jose here. But I guess I sort of believe that it would make since if you were born of a C-section would make you born of a woman... but not.
josed and johnb- The prophecy was just talking about being born from a woman naturally. A C-section is not natural. I don't believe that those sorts of things were common back then, so it didn't cross Macbeth's mind. There was also no need to cut down the forest because Macbeth was thinking that a forest could not just get up and move itself. I wouldn't either. So, those are my comments.
Chelseas, that is a good question about Fleance and where he went. I don't think that they told us at all, because he didn't even appear in the 5th act. Now that I think about it, it is even more puzzling. Wasn't he supposed to become the king later because of what the prophecy said?
Another thing. I have no idea why Macbeth would have trusted the witches in the first place. Maybe they knew that his weakness was an obsession with power and decided to bring him down. I don't see why the witches would have messed with him in the first place anyways. Also, he might have trusted them because they made him feel good about himself and made him want to make the procphecy come true quicker. They are almost procphecizing his doom, and they know that they only reason he will become king is because his inner evil will take control and make him kill a bunch of people.
Okay, since there is no blog for Act V in Macbeth, I need to say it here. I think that it is a little bit gruesome to have Macduff enter carrying Macbeth's head. I mean, Macbeth deserved to die, but to 'see' Macbeth's head decapitated from his body kind of makes me sad. I mean, he was the main character. Does anyone else feel like this or am I just imagining things?
I don't really feel sad but I do feel like the play ended kind of like LOF because people died and they were rescued then it ended there was like no resolution I dont know it might just be me but they both seemed to end kind of abrubtly.
Morgant. I do agree, a rather gruesome ending. But how would it be if Macbeth got away with it? It seems that howver brutal, the play ended satisfactory. It's hard to think of a better, less tragic ending.
First of all, elizabethc, I think that Macbeth listened to the witches just because they boosted his ego. They made him feel powerful. I also think that they knew his weakness, like you said.
In Act Five, I agree with kristinah and ashleyf, that it ended similarly to the ending of LOF. They did both seem to end abruptly, in a sort of cliff hanger. I think that all of the followers of Macbeth would have fought against Macbeth, if he hadn’t have been defeated. Also, what ever happened to Malcolm’s brother? Did he come to fight with them against Macbeth?
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109 comments:
I have a question: does Lady Macbeth know that Macbeth masterminded Banquo's death, or does she just think Macbeth is seeing Banquo's ghost simply because Banquo was one of his best friends and not because of his guilt? Or does she even know that he's "seeing" Banquo's ghost?
AmyW I believe that she knows of the kill-I think that Shakespeare expects us to know this due to the relationship that we've seen Lady Macbeth and Macbeth share. I believe that she also knows this because she helps escort the guests out of the castle and comes up with a lie for Macbeth. I think that this would further proove that Lady Macbeth knows about Banquo's organized killing.
Thanks jhall! It makes more sense now!
Do we know where Flence fled to after his father was killed? I didn't catch that.
No chealseas we don't know where Fleance flees to after Banquo was killed, we just know that he ran away.
Why does Macbeth trust the witches so much? Seriously, what's to trust about people who have led you to murder then dissapear while you're talking to them?
josed---I think Macbeth trusts the witches so much because he liked what they said to him, that he could become king and have all this power. He could be a superstitious person, trusting people who disappear while you are talking to them. Maybe he's a gullible person, i.e. he believes pretty much anything. But mostly I think it's because he liked what they told him.
Has anyone noticed that the dagger Macbeth holds, the shadow is a giant sword?
stephenf - i am not sure what you mean. Do you mean in the movies of Macbeth 'cause i don't see where you would get that from the text?
Does anybody have any idea how Macbeth found the weird sisters? I mean if they are these mystical being that travel all over all the time, how the heck would he find them? Any ideas???
Does anybody have any idea how Macbeth found the weird sisters? I mean if they are these mystical being that travel all over all the time, how the heck would he find them? Any ideas???
Does anybody have any idea how Macbeth found the weird sisters? I mean if they are these mystical being that travel all over all the time, how the heck would he find them? Any ideas???
Sorry I posted that three times!
Catem - I think we're just supposed to assume that Macbeth went back to the place where he first met with/saw the witches. Since they are metaphysical, they were expecting him and met him there.
stephenf, do you mean the movies? because there is nothing about that in the text.
Ok I was just curious to see what other people thought about this: If the apparition said no one born of a woman could kill Macbeth, then that means no human can kill Macbeth right? I kind of took it as a force like his own ambition or something mystical would be his downfall. What do you think?
Why do you all think The Weird Sisters chose to show Macbeth appparations instead of just telling him what he wanted to know? Was it just for dramatic purposes or do you think it better symbolizes what going to happen...
I'm also wondering why the first apparation was just a head...Could it relate to someone who was beheaded?
I meant the dagger on the cover of the book.
Stephan, it probably relates to Macbeth's huge amoutn of power even though it all started with one small dagger. Or at least thats what I think
Stephen** (sorry I spelled your name wrong)
Why is Macbeth trusting these apparations so much?
They're creepy images coming out of disgusting ingredients set out by some witches who gave him the idea to kill the king and Banquo which is still giving him guilt and other craziness. Why does he keep asking for more problems from the witches?
What are we supposed to think about Macduff? I mean, at this point in the play, I would be cheering him on to go and take down Macbeth, but Macbeth is supposed to be the hero; who is the "good guy" anymore? Macbeth goes around killing practically anyone anymore, but Macduff is the enemy of the protagonist. Why couldn't it be a normal plot where the hero is always the good guy, not switching between good cop, bad cop? Darn it, enough with the confusing plot twists!
Also, I bet that Macbeth's going to commit suicide; if he can't be killed by men, then maybe he'll end up killing himself. What do you guys think?
Maddief-I think that this all depends on what your interpretation of Macbeth is. Macbeth could be planning of committing suicide, but he could also be killed by an animal, or something. The witches might give him a potion to make him forget thing, or make him become too wrapped up in himself. This would not be a man killing him then.
Also, if he is killed, then who will take over as the king?
keke, i think he's trusting them because the witches had predicted his future and were correct and since the apparitions were there with the witches he just kind of believes. I don't really think MAcbeth is that bright personally
Kekek, I agree with your comment about why Macbeth trusts these apparitions. Since Hecate was unhappy with the witches, these could be total hoaxes. They may be trying to kill Macbeth, too. Also, Macbeth only focuses on the good things about him, and right now. He doesn’t think about the long term effects. Stephenf, I did notice the dagger on the front cover, and the shadow that it casts. I agree with what Laurenc said, and I also think that it could relate to his big ego, as well as the power that he longs for, and now possesses. These are a few of my comments!!
so is ross lady macduff's cousin?
Leslie yes i think that Ross is Lady Macduff's cousin.
Did Macbeth have any reason for killin Lady Macduff other then that he's gone compleatly psyco?
Also I think everybody lies and that it's kind of rediculous to think that all liars should be hanged.
Rya i don't think that Macbeth wanted to kill Lady Macbeth for any other purpose than that she was the wife of Macduff, becuase he wanted to and your reason: he is completly phycho.
And i agree with you that Lady Macduff is being a little absurd when she says that all liars should be hanged. If that happened i think that everyone would be dead; i know i would be.
ryad---Macbeth killed Lady Macduff just as a "precaution", like how he planned to kill Fleance. And yes, like you said, he's completely physco (and evil). He's become a cold-blooded murderer.
Rya, thanks! presonally i think that scene was put in there to make the apparition come true "beware of macduff" remember? by killing macduffs family, macbeth is only causing more anger from macduff and i think that is going to be the reason why hes going to have to "beware of macduff" i didnt get to share that in class and i thought it was a good idea =D
I totally agree with you lesliel! Awesome thoughts!
Just food for thought here, about the man born of woman thing: wouldn't anyone who was ripped out of the womb because the mother died have been able to kill Macbeth? And considering act 3.5 was written by someone other than shakespeare, couldn't those have been real spirits in the original? And am I the only one who thought that it was possible Macbeth was HALLUCINATING? Because: he knows where the witches were(it was a place with a door, since Lennox or Ross were guarding the entrance, so it wasn't the heath), they magically disappeared, and the spirits were surreal to say the least (bloody kid, a baby holding a TREE, a floating head in armor). Like I said before, just food for thought...
Now, on to the homework! Since we were supposed to use a quote, and say whether we agree or disagree, I'll put mine in! Oh yeah, just a prelude to what this may lead into: literary analysis. So, here's my assignment:
Commenting on the punishment of traitors, Macduff's unnamed son comments: "... The liars and the swearers are fools; for there are liars and swarers enow to beat the honest men and hang up them"(Shakespeare, Macbeth, 61-62). Here, the son expresses the belief that there are enough liars and swearers that the few honest men could not hold up against them. I, for one, disagree. There are enough good people to keep the prisons running. There are enough good people to be policemen. Truly, the men who lie and swear are few and far between, or else we would see a lot more violence.
Now, to my questions!
Why would Malcolm use the stuff he said to see if Macduff could be trusted?
Why does Edward heal people?
Could someone explain a little more on what the 3rd apparition is saying. Is he saying that the forest will have to rise aginst him, or everyone from his castle in Dunsinane Hill to Birnam Wood will rise against him?
Okay guys. I'm just going to post my questions.
SCENE TWO:
-When Lady Macduff says that she can just go to the market to buy husbands... that is wierd. Since when can you buy husbands or wives for that matter? I don't think that she means it literally, but can anyone clarify?
SCENE THREE:
- Do Malcolm and Macduff know that Macbeth killed King Duncan?
-I thought it was really rude when Macduff said, "We have willing dames enough..." I thought that was horrible. You have to read the context around it though.
-Okay, you know how Malcolm gives that whole speech about how he would be horrible if he was king? At the end when Macduff gives that outburst, Malcolm says that whole thing was a lie? Why did he do that?
-When they are talking about King Edward, they said that he gets powers from heaven so he can heal people? I don't get it.
If anyone can clarify for me, I'd sure appreciate it!
I was wondering who sent the messenger? And also I think that othwe things would make you a traitor other than swearing and lying cause if that were true today a lot of people would be considered traitors, so maybe it just deoends on the time period of what are the qualifications of a traitor.
Leslie that is an awsome idea.
MorganT- when Lady Macduff says that she can just go to marked and get a new husbend I think she means that becuase of who she is she can get any man she wants. Also i think that Malcom and Macduff might have guessed that Macbeth killed Duncan which is why Macduff has made ally's in England.
Maybe I just missed something but I was wondering how the messenger knew to warn lady Macduff? Did someone tell him something in a past act?
Thanks Rya D! That helps a lot. =D
Can anyone clarify what in the world the third apparition was saying? I don't really get it. And I also have a question on the homework (apparition chart). What are you guys doing for the images? I don't really want to look them up if you know what I mean.
Sorry, guys. The apparitions are just confusing me. Is the second apparition saying that no woman will harm Macbeth, or no one born from a woman will harm Macbeth? That would be everybody I thought. If it is the first option, why does Macbeth not need to kill Macduff?
madisonm- the third appartion is saying that Macbeth will be safe until the forest which is 12 miles away moves up to meet his palace.
morgant- Malcolm wasnt sure he could trust MAcduff. He wanted to know whether Macduff was a good man or just wanted anyone but Macbeth as king
Morgant- i think there is more to the story. if you notice, the apparations contadict eachother is some small way. in the third apparation it says that macbeth will be safe until the forest comes to his palace. Why would he need to worry about that stuff if he cant be killed. i think there is trickery behind the words or he interpets them to mean something different than what will acutally happen
stefo-Thanks for your comment. Okay, so the second apparition says that no one that was born of a woman could harm Macbeth? Did I get that right? You do have an interesting comment though. That is a very good observation. I missed that.
Morgant - Yes, the second apparition is saying that no one born of a woman (AKA: everybody) can harm him.
maddisonm - the 3rd appiration is saying that Macbeth can only be defeated after the forest mentioned starts encroaching on the palace where he lives.
Also doesn't it seem to you that since Macbeth cannot be harmed by anyone born of woman, and won't be vanquished untill the forest encroaches the castle, that Macbeth will die of normal causes and Fleance will just show up to take the slack? Because the withces seem to always tell the truth, but not the whole truth just the part of it that will cause Macbeth to make the most chaos.
Katyj - I think that Fleance will become king after his forces have canquished Macbeth. I do not think that Macbeth will be killed though - I think he will end up living a lonely, desolute, aweful existance trying desparetly to make up for his wrongdoings. Also, I have this sinking suspition that their is a curse on him and that's what will prevent him from dying. His punishment will be worse than death - having to live with his mistakes until he has fixed what he wronged. Just a theory. Does anybody else think that's a possibility?
Ok, well i'm just saying this, and i know people will probably dissagree, but who ever said that the witches were alwas right? We all know that they just want to create confusion, and telling lies definitly creates confusion. Or did people not tell false profaceys back then?
Alexf, people difinetly told false prophecies back then, and people probably still do. My 7th grade teacher "prophecied", but he was wrong often. Macbeth takes their word probably because they are supernatural and I would probably take a supernatural's word too.
Maddie H.- I agree with you when you said that since no one born of a woman could kill Macbeth, then the force of his own ambition will be his downfall. It also kind of seems like if that is true then the apparition was flat out telling him that he is just like a tragic hero and that his ambition is his downfall. I was also a little bit confused on what happened between Macduff and Malcolm. Could somebody explain it to me?
alyssa s.- i think that what happened between Macduff and Malcome was that Malcolm was seeing if he could trust Macduff but i was also confused at the end. Did Malcolm find Macduff to be trustworthy?
In period 5, we have not yet gotten to the part between Malcolm and Macduff, so sorry nicolek. I do have some questions on the scenes before that though. First, I was a little confused on the third apparition. Did he mean that the forest would literally move, or just the inhabitants of the forest would move? Also, who do you guys think the messanger is? It seems odd that a random person would come in and warn them of their death.
maybe the woods moving meant that like the trees wouldnt move but the seeds that grow trees would blow closer to the castle and grow. and i think the messenger was probably a guy who saw the murderers coming toward the castle at fife.
i agree with ryan about the messenger, but i think that the trees will be more metaphorical. we know that the only thing that magic controls in the book is the weather, so, i think that magic won't mpove them, so i think that the actual woods won't move.
i really don't have any questions... i did on friday, but the sub didn't let us use laptops so i forgot it.
i agree with ryan too that the trees moving is that the forest will grow closer to the castle: which would take an incredible amount of time.
btw, the song "the pretender" by the foo fighters, is another song that challenges the system, which is good song. it would be good to bring up in challenging the system.
With the whole moving trees thing: when things are not in order, the weather changes. And weather is in nature, as are trees, trees are a symbol or nature. And because it is the ground inhabitants that are moving and doing weird things instead of the weather, this could represent how everything that you know now will change. Sort of like a turning poin in the story. this theory is a little far fetched but...any comments?
question: what is the 4th apparition? There was another vision of the eight kings, was that an apparation or was that just the witches?
Has anyone else been wondering about how Macbeth is going to be challenged if no man can harm him? If the witches always tell the truth (even if it is not the whole truth) it seems like he's safe, but if he is how can there be much more to the play?
Maybe he's going to be challenged by some force of nature?
Clarao-
I think that the witches were saying things to make Macbeth get a bigger head. In the 'added' scene Hecate says to the witches that they must make Macbeth think he is invinable or something right?
I' not sure about any of this, but those are my thoughts.
Does anyone know what was really the importance of the Lady Macduff and Son scene? All i got out of it was the murder at the end
I found that it was pretty wierd when one of the apparitions said that no one of woman birth would be able to overthrow macbeth. But maybe since he can't sleep, that would drive him insane, and he would die by himself. Also, another apparition said that the trees would actually move to the castle, but mybe macbeth misinterpreted this, and he might move his castle to the woods.
Act four was a bit confusing to me because I didn’t know what the witches were talking about. I knew what they were prophesizing but I didn’t know why they were doing it. Why they actually lying to Macbeth about all of these things just to make him cocky or were the prophecies they told really true? And also, how much does Lady Macbeth actually know about Macbeth?
Ok so I am really confused! Banquo is dead and he only has one living son right? So then how can Macbeth overthrough him if it fourtune for him to have kings as sons? The Apparirions conflicted with eachother in so many ways. Do you guys think that this means that Macbeth gets a say in wich one he chooses? or are the whiches just instill a false sence of power so that he will screw up everything? Macduff is very interesting! He kinda is sightly like Macbeths former self! Any Ideas...
MollyS, I think that scene with Lady Macduff and their son is to show that Lady Macduff doesn't trust Macduff. But i also dont understand the importance of the son being their.....?
I think the son's there to show that Macduff has a family, and to give someone for Lady Macduff to talk to. I also think we're supposed to compare him to Fleance or something, but in the murder of Banquo, banquo was killed and not his son, while in the more recent murder, the son was killed instead of the parent. That might mean absolutely nothing, but I think Shakespeare is trying to tell us that the more Macbeth tries to fight what might happen, the more likely it seems it will come to pass.
rsabey- I'm not sure either, but I think that the witches are just screwing with his head. They might also be telling the truth, because so far, they haven't lied. Lies are bad. Withes are bad. Witches don't lie. (Witches aren't bad?) Fair is foul....
Some quesitons I hade included how does a forest just get up and move. I also was wandering why Macduff began to believe Macbeth after he siad he was just kidding about the cruel things he would do as a ruler. the apparitions why macbeth is so paranoid after the second apparition that still has to kill Macduff even though no one of woman born can harm him??
You have to think about what Macduff knows compared to what we know. He doesn't know that Macbeth killed all those people, to him Macbeth is a trustworthy king. The forest I have no idea, maybe some natural disaster, like an earthquake will happen and move the wood due to the disturbance in the natural order. I was also wondering if the witches needed supernatural ingredients to wield magic, or if the can just cast it.
Well, I think that the witches are probably telling some truth, but spinning that in with lies so that it al kind of sounds true, but actually none of it is the whole truth. I agree with Mac. You really need to think about what the characrers know versus what you know. We know that Macbeth is a murderer and everything, but Macduff does not. From what he ha seen Macbeth has appeared loyal to his country and his king. Now that he is king, why would that change?
What I am wondering is why he keeps going to the witches. I mean last time they told him something, he ended up killing his best friend and his king! I don't think I would want to trust someone who caused that to happen very much.
No one answered my question :( and I'm very hurt....
Here it is again.
Maybe I just missed something but I was wondering how the messenger knew to warn lady Macduff? Did someone tell him something in a past act?
dawniellen- I would have answered it, but to be honest, I'm not quite sure either.
dawneille, i think the messenger might have seen the murderers coming or somthing because it doesnt explain how he knew. possibly he was at the gate or something and the murderers wanted in and he had to question them for their purpose and the messenger might have just guessed. thats just my personal opinion
Dawnielle- The only reason that I can think of is that servents and messengers hear things that others don't because people tend to ignore them and think they are stupid. Or the messenger could have carried the message to the murderers and thought he should warn Lady Macduff.
Sorry but thats all I can think of.
so why did ross not tell him at first?
lesliel- I think that Ross didn't want to break the news to Macduff so suddenly. He wanted to break the news "softly"(if that's even possible) I guess. That's one theory. There are other ways to interpret that.
Yeah why did Ross not tell Macduff at first. Was he afraid of how Macduff might react?
Ross didn't tell Macduff at first because i don't think he really wanted tp break it to him. Also he isn't really lying, because they are doing well in heaven, and he is only trying to keep it from Macduff because he is afraid that Macduff will take his anger out on him.
Lesliel- Well Ross starts talking positive saying that they are well. I think (like soneone said in class) that he was maybe refering to the whole " they're in a better place" thing. Then he breaks it to him. It is alot to tell one man that everything he loved is dead.
Near the end of scene three, Macduff says that if Macbeth escapes, then heaven forgive him. Does this mean that Macduff would be okay with Macbeth still being alive?
Hannahl- HI! I think he is saying that if he gets away he will have a baaaaad fate. I think he is refering to how bad his punishment would be in "hell" I guess. He is almost saying that even though he hates Macbeth he would almost feel bad for him becuase of the fate he would recieve.
I am upset with Macbeth he made a right choice at the beginning, when he didn't want to kill them, but now he is so far in it makes me mad. I can't wait to see how Macbeth ends up
I still don't understand though. Is he saying that if he escapes than he should be forgiven, because that sounds really nice of him?
Hannahl- No, Macduff is saying that if Macbeth gets away, then lets hope that heaven is on his side, because I will pursue him. Maybe not pursue, but get some sort of revenge. Plus, more people will want Macbeth gone. I certainly hope that they want the same for Lady Macbeth. I hope this makes it clearer.
It makes it a bit clearer. Yet, still I am thrown of by the word forgive because that is different than if he would have said "heaven have mercy on him" or something like that.
Hannahl- I think this means that he just expects Macbeth to do 'unforigivable' things, which is why he mentions forgivness
Macduff is also saying that heaven help Macbeth because he will be needing it. So, "Let's hope heaven is on his side because he's going to need it when he is dealing with me!"
tylerg!- I agree 100% with you! I felt pity for Macbeth at the beginning because it almost felt like he didn't have a choice. But now..... he is just killing senselessly. Now I do want to see how he will cause his own downfall.
hannahl, i think that the "forgiveness" meant that when he dies, whether or not macduff can kill him in time he hopes that heaven will forgive him by the time he gets up to the place between heaven and earth (can't remember what it's called)(it's a place where you wait for your sins to be forgiven and become pure before you go up, and if your sins are too bad, or you arnt completely sorry for them you cant go to heaven) thats just my personal thought. though i can see why you're confused because it does seem kind of kind of him to ask for heaven to forgive macbeth.
OH! i totally just thought of something... if anyone gets this by the test tommorow. Because of the 2nd apparitions words the "nobody born from a woman will ever harm macbeth" couldn't that mean that macbeth will kill himself? What if his guilt and regret overcomes him and he decides to sacrify himself?
WOAH!! haha i was just thinking again, i do a lot of thinking here. but this is on the same thing. k: no man born from a woman. a woman can kill macbeth! like in lord of the rings with Eyowen and the King of the Nazgul! (sorry i get really excited here) but a woman could totally be the one to kill Macbeth! what if Lady Macbeth completely loses it and kills him!!! AH! im excited. =D
lesliel- Well, Macbeth couldn't harm himself because he was also born of a woman. Everybody is. But, maybe the prophecy just meant other men. That is a good insight!
on your other comment: A woman is also born of another woman. But, again, maybe the prophecy was just warning Macbeth about men. That is also a good insight! That would be a very interesting ending if Lady Macbeth ended up going 'loco' (not that she isn't already) and killing her husband!
I have a question now:
Why is there so much farm and nature symbolism in Macbeth? I'm confused on that. We probably talked about it in class, but I didn't quite catch it.
dawnielle- I think that maybe the messenger overheard Macbeth plotting. Maybe he did, and maybe he didn't. Then he rushed to Lady Macduff and warned her.
About the forest thing. Leslie gave a really good idea about the forest thing. Maybe Macbeth will have most of the forest cut down and have the logs transported to his castle. Then the forest would have 'moved' to his palace. That was a really good idea Leslie!!!
Leslie- that is an awsome idea about how a woman could kill Macbeth!! That would be awsome!
I know this question is kind of late but I was just wondering if someone could clarify a little, why Malcolm is telling all these lies to Macduff? I know he doesn't trust him but that won't get him anywhhere lying?
melissaz---Malcolm is telling these lies to Macduff because he wants to see if he can trust him to help him in his quest to regain the throne. They're false and he doesn't intend to do any of the stuff; he's testing Macduff.
melissaz- I agree with amyw. Malcolm is just trying to see if Macduff is trustworthy. He is not so sure of Macduff's intentions, so he tells lies about himself to see what Macduff's reactions will be. Then he finds out that Macduff really is trustworthy, and takes it all back. I hope this can clarify a little bit for you.
Just a short note to let you know that I've been following your work this year and I've been showing it to other teachers who are going to try something like this with their students. You folks (students) are setting a great example for others to follow.
Just know that there are LOTS of eyes on your work and you're doing such a good job!
thanks JIM GATES...
I thought it was odd how Macbeth expects to live out a long and normal life, and to die a natural death at a "ripe old age". Usually when people have gone as far as he has for power, and done as many foul things as he has, they tend to gain the desire to live forever. That's like the opposite of Macbeth. He thinks he's nearly incincible, and continually convinces himsef that he cannot be killed. Other "evil" people are all to aware of their mortality, and they try to find a way to become immortal, and that is usually ho they meet their imminent DOOM.........
Ok, here's my question which nobody answered...
Couldn't someone born by a C-section by male doctor kill macbeth?
Oh yeah, in the semifinal act it is revealed Macduff was born as I said, so... yeah.
But still, he's so ambitious he doesn't think to cut the forest down or think about C-section.
Yeah, I'm going to share my thoughts with Jose here.
But I guess I sort of believe that it would make since if you were born of a C-section would make you born of a woman...
but not.
josed and johnb- The prophecy was just talking about being born from a woman naturally. A C-section is not natural. I don't believe that those sorts of things were common back then, so it didn't cross Macbeth's mind. There was also no need to cut down the forest because Macbeth was thinking that a forest could not just get up and move itself. I wouldn't either. So, those are my comments.
Chelseas, that is a good question about Fleance and where he went. I don't think that they told us at all, because he didn't even appear in the 5th act. Now that I think about it, it is even more puzzling. Wasn't he supposed to become the king later because of what the prophecy said?
Another thing. I have no idea why Macbeth would have trusted the witches in the first place. Maybe they knew that his weakness was an obsession with power and decided to bring him down. I don't see why the witches would have messed with him in the first place anyways. Also, he might have trusted them because they made him feel good about himself and made him want to make the procphecy come true quicker. They are almost procphecizing his doom, and they know that they only reason he will become king is because his inner evil will take control and make him kill a bunch of people.
Okay, since there is no blog for Act V in Macbeth, I need to say it here. I think that it is a little bit gruesome to have Macduff enter carrying Macbeth's head. I mean, Macbeth deserved to die, but to 'see' Macbeth's head decapitated from his body kind of makes me sad. I mean, he was the main character. Does anyone else feel like this or am I just imagining things?
I don't really feel sad but I do feel like the play ended kind of like LOF because people died and they were rescued then it ended there was like no resolution I dont know it might just be me but they both seemed to end kind of abrubtly.
Morgant. I do agree, a rather gruesome ending. But how would it be if Macbeth got away with it? It seems that howver brutal, the play ended satisfactory. It's hard to think of a better, less tragic ending.
First of all, elizabethc, I think that Macbeth listened to the witches just because they boosted his ego. They made him feel powerful. I also think that they knew his weakness, like you said.
In Act Five, I agree with kristinah and ashleyf, that it ended similarly to the ending of LOF. They did both seem to end abruptly, in a sort of cliff hanger. I think that all of the followers of Macbeth would have fought against Macbeth, if he hadn’t have been defeated. Also, what ever happened to Malcolm’s brother? Did he come to fight with them against Macbeth?
this was a good act. the apparations made it interseting. I don't have any questions.
in act four who is the messenger and what does he say does anyone know?
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