Friday, September 7, 2007

LOF ch. 4-6 response

What are some examples of relationships between the characters? What is the building block of these relationships and what is breaking them apart? Describe an instance when you had a relationship with a friend that fell apart. Why did it fall apart? Can you personally connect to what is happening to the boys on the island.

50 comments:

chelseas said...

In chapters 4-6 of Lord of the Flies, some important events occurred. Some major relationships between the characters were unfolded. We learned that many of the boys are afraid of the beasts, specifically the little uns. Simon is the one who the boys see walking through the woods at night, in the dark. The boys begin to hallucinate, from the hot temperatures during the day, and this causes arguments between all of them. Some think they saw the beast too, and others argue that there is no beast. The older kids are mad at the little uns because they don’t help at all. Also, as the boys experience new things, a sort of bond or relationship is formed between them. For example, Simon, Piggy, Ralph, and Jack all seem to trust each other most of the time. For the most part, I think that Jack sort of respects Ralph. Ralph has to make lots of decisions that could help or hurt the boys. The building blocks are the struggles that they go through. As they experience more troubles, they learn how to cope with these experiences, and they realize that they need each other for support. I think that what breaks them apart is the fear, and some of the arguing. Arguing can aid, or break relationships, in my opinion. In LOF, they are doing a little of both.

When my friendship fell apart, it was caused because of a trust issue. She couldn’t be trusted, so we decided not to be friends.

I can connect with the boys in that the whole experience is similar to the movie Castaway. In this movie, Tom Hanks is the main character who is stranded on an island after a plane crash. He learns how to survive off of the island. This is the main connection that I can make to the book.

morgant said...

In chapter 4-5, the relationships are starting to develop. Ralph and Jack are starting to get along a little bit more. But, in chapter 4, Ralph starts realizing all the things that are going wrong. He realizes that the little kids aren't helping at all, and that everyone is just messing around. Then, Jack lets the fire out and gets a pig. Then Ralph just explodes. In chapter 6, the relationship just kind of hits a tough spot. Ralph is contemplating a lot. At the end, when they find that new spot, Ralph get really upset. To strengthen that relationship, there needs to be trust and cooperation. Jack and Ralph have different views of things, that is what is breaking them apart at the moment. They need to get along and respect what one another says.

I've had a bad relationship with friends before. I trusted this one girl, and she seemed nice enough, but we were soooo different. She did things that I would never think of doing. Worst of all, she wouldn't go away. It started out pretty good, then it just fell apart. It fell apart because she was mean, and very different from me and my character. I can't really personally connect with this book directly persay, but I can connect with it in a different way. That is my opinion.

maddief said...

Well, it seems like everybody's true colors are finally starting to show. When I first started reading LOF, I thought that Ralph was going to be a weak and disorganized leader, but I guess that I was wrong. Ralph is there for all of the boys, the littluns and even the older ones. Ralph is holding everything together by a single thread, but it could snap at any moment thanks to one person; Jack. Jack and Ralph have a very unstable relationship at this point. Ralph was supposed to be chief of everyone, but now there seems to be two different entities on the island; the hunters and the ones clinging desperately onto civilization. Jack believes that all that's important is the hunt, and the rush and power that comes from killing. Ralph is making a noble attempt to keep the boys together in order for them to be rescued, and he's beginning to find himself more and more responsible for the boys. Another person whose presence is dividing Jack and Ralph is Piggy. Ralph appreciates Piggy for his brains and his practical view of everything, but because he is physically weak, Jack considers him a disgusting nuisance, and this is just one more topic that Ralph and Jack can't seem to agree on.

I had a really close friend in middle school, but she's intersted in other things now, and we don't have a lot in common anymore. Jack and Ralph were a team in the beginning, but now they've broken up into two teams versing each other, each seeking domination for their own reasons. My friend and I aren't fighting or anything, but there's definitely an awkward rift that wasn't there before, just like Ralph and Jack.

KatherineM said...

You really got to see relationships develop in chapters four through six. I think Ralph is becoming a better leader, and he's really thinking about all the other boys. He wants everyone to do the work they're supposed to do and follow the rules, so that they have a better chance of survival. I agree with what Maddie F said about Ralph and Jack having a very unstable relationship. Ralph and Jack have different priorities and don't agree on everything. They need to try to work together. Ralph is listening to Piggy now and actually acknowledging the fact that Piggy really has a good sense of what's going on.

I had a friendship that fell apart last year. We had been really close friends in sixth and seventh grade, but in eighth grade, she became interested in other things, and we grew apart.
Sortof like Ralph and Jack, we discovered that we had different interests and priorities.

stefo said...

I agree with a lot of what Maddie said. What started out as a great adventure for the boys is beginning to turn into something is teetering dangerously on the edge of pandemonium and disaster. The boys are beginning to lose respect for Ralph. To me Ralph represents the last shred of civilization on the island while Jack represents the beginning of savagery which I predict the entire island will revert to by the end of the book. The building blocks of their friendship were two boys trapped on the island that were both recognized as authority figures. Ralph and Jack had an easy friendship until it became apparent that each had very different priorities. I have lost a friendship where I realized that we had lost respect for each other. People change and we both had changed so much. Our interests weren’t the same and our priorities definitely weren’t the same anymore. So in that way I can relate to the situation between Ralph and Jack.

macm said...

Well, at the beginning of LOF I can honestly say I thought that Jack would be a better leader than Ralph. Obviously, Jack has a screw loose, because he isn't doing anything to better the lives of the castaways. Basically, the letting out of the fire was the beginning of the end for the so called "friendship" between Jack and Ralph. I'm proud of Ralph for asserting himself and pointing out the flaws of their society, but I still dont agree with the way he treats Piggy.
I have had a falling out with a friend before, when I was about six. My best friend allison, told me to do a bunch of things that got me in trouble with my teacher (drawing on walls, etc). I was really mad and then the next year, we didn't have the same teacher and I made new friends. We were always polite to eachother, but our friendship was over. I guess it's that trust thing again. Also, when I moved to colorado, I lost touch with A LOT of my friends.

amyw said...

In chapters 4-6, we see many relationships start to strengthen and then fall apart, the best example being Jack and Ralph. Just when you think they will become friends (or at least be civil to each other), their relationship completely fell apart. Because Jack didn't keep the fire going like Ralph asked him to, a wall was immediately put up between them and they have been hostile to each other ever since. Because of the bad situation the boys are in, no one is very happy. Who would be happy and friendly 24/7, being stuck on an island with no chance for rescue in the near future??

I've had experience with this as well because I had an extremely good friend who I had known since I was one. She started to change, and became pretentious and caught up with money and looks. She wasn't good at keeping in touch either. We didn't have a fight or anything, we just became too different and drifted apart. I haven't spoken to her in over a year. I think this is common at our age, to drift apart from old friends and make new ones.

morganw said...

Most of the examples of relationships between the characters in LOF have to do with Ralph. Ralph and Piggy. Ralph and Simon. Ralph and Jack. Ralph seems to value Piggy's insight into things, but doesn't want the rest of the boys, who don't respect Piggy, to think that he's friends with him. Their building block of their relationship is they are both able to see what is actually going on and they both see the need for rescue. They were the first ones each other knew and they have a connection through being the first human faces each saw on the island. They're relationship is getting pushed farther and farther apart due to the pressure on Ralph's leadership position and Jacks's flagrant hate of Piggy. With his power on the line as it is too hard for Ralph to befriend Piggy because he would loose what little respect he has from the other boys.

One of my best friends moved away to Texas, but when she came back we were stil good friends. Then she decided to move schools and needed to make new friends so she stopped calling me and would cancel our "play dates" to try to set up things with her new friends. I stopped calling her and since then we haven't really ever talked. That was five years ago.

I can personally connect to whats happening on the island - I have been put into a similar position as Ralph. You want to and know you should be friends with someone, but the peer presure keeps you from acting on it. Luckily, me and that friend are now good friends.

Javonm said...

I am beginning t see a lot of different relationships. One that I have noticed a lot is between Ralph, Piggy, and Simon. Over the course of the first few chapters I began to see Ralph take a back seat to Piggy's harrasement by Simon. Ralph never wanted to seem like he was standing up for the lesser guy so he continued to let Jack do that. Then I began to see that attitude change. When the big assembly came up where they all had to discuss setting things straight that was the first time I began to see Ralph stick up for Piggy when he had the Conch. What I find the most interstin of this relationship though is the relation ship between just Ralph and Jack. I still am having trouble telling while the book goes on whether or not the two really like each other. I am sensing that Jack reall isn't to fond of Ralph secretly becuase he was voted cheif of the island and he has been dubbed leadership responsibilties. I think though that Ralph is somewhat afraid of Jack or going against him thining it will ruin some part of his rep. among the other island members. I noticed this when Jack came back from hunting and got the pig, but was supposed to be making sure the flame burned. I thought it was weird because since keeping the firs is the most important thing in Ralph's mind and that they missed a possible opprutunity to be rescued that he would have some sort of thing to say to Jack about it, but he didn't> He just let it go, if anyone can give me ideas as to why he might have done that please let me know?

One part I really liked was when SImon seemed to be challenging their system and a more dominent member, Jack. Now it seems to me that it is pretty clear tha Jack doesn't like Piggy. I thought it was good for Simon for challenging Jack's authority by giving piggy some of the meat at dinner. I thought it kind of related to the idea of challenging the system because it is a minor case of sticking up for what is right even if no one else agrees with you or has the guts to do it.

I don't really know of an instance when a relationship between me and a friend fell apart. As I said above about Ralph giving up to fighting with Jack maybe its because it was to much trouble. The most I have ever had a run in with a friend is just a fight with them. I guess I kind of did what Jack did and just let it go remend the relationship and move on.
What do other people think of the idea of that, just giving up? Do you think it is good or shows signs of weakness?

I am having trouble connecting to the boys just becuase I have never quite been in a situation where I have to tough it out on my own in really any forms. I also don't really ever have troubles agreeing with people a lot most of the time things just flow together. I am definetley making a connection to Piggy though. Not a personal but a world connection. I think it is wrong that the other boys treat Piggy badly just becuase he doesn't look or fit "the part". He is a lot different then the other kids; but why is that so wrong? I treminds me of high school, just because you are a jock or you are a cheerleader or whatever, why does that suddenly make you better then the kid who plays on the chess team? I think maybe their are higher profiles of people, but not better people. For instance the fact that you are an athlete maybe you are more known then the kid who doesn't play any sports, but you are still equal with him, you aren't better.

Tylerg! said...

As much as i hate to admit it, I also have never really had to tough it out like the boys. I've always been given a lot but nevewr really had to survive on my own. I'm not proud of this, but it is making it harder to really feel what the boys are going through. The relationships in chapters 4-6 are starting to get tested and we see many split apart and some new ones start to form. I have had a fiend since I was 4 and we still keep in touch and this is tough for those boys to want to be friends with eachother, so I see why jack and ralph are having trouble with eachother.

maddisonm said...

During these 3 chapters I think a lot of personalities of the characters form. I think that the 2 main characters are Ralph and Jack. However Simon seems to start to come into play during chapters 5-6. I think the relationships of the characters are a huge part of the book. Ralph and Jack’s relationship is a little rough. Jack craves the power that Ralph has and Jack will do anything for that power. I find these two characters to be very opposite. Ralph is more of a natural leader who stands for civilization, and order. Jack on the other hand stands for savage and the want for power so he can use it to his advantage. I think that these opposite characteristics are pulling them apart. Jack is getting annoyed with Ralph because he doesn’t always agree with him and want to follow his orders. Jack seems to be more rude are uncaring to others needs, as Ralph wants to help others.
I agree with chelseas that the building blocks of the relationships is that as the time increases on the island, and they experience more hardships they realize that they need each other to help. Otherwise I can not see these two boys becoming friends if it were not for the island bringing them together. I can not see them becoming friends like at school or at home life
Piggy, although he is smart, does not possess all the qualities that are required to survive in a situation like this, I find this is why he is an outcast.
I think Simon more follows in Ralph’s footsteps to the extent that he is not all about power and all for himself.
At the end of chapter 6 it seems as though the boys are starting to warm up to each other. They start to joke and more hang out. I think why this occurs is that Ralph lets down his civilization side a little bit.
An instance where I had a friendship fall apart was when we both started to become interested in different things. We had different priorities. Just like to Jack and Ralph the have different priorities I think that once you set your prorates and morals, and a close friend decides that they want to go in a different direction then what you have chosen to go in, it is hard to maintain a trusting friendship.
Overall I will say honestly that I do not really connect with the boys on the island, just because I have not really experienced anything like that, to that extent.

josed said...

Some relationships I have seen throughout the book are Jack and Ralph going from friends to rivals who respect each other, Ralph and Piggy becoming closer, and Ralph, Piggy, and Simon becoming a closer group with each other. Jack and Ralph both want power, and Ralph's rules are the driving force behind Jack lashing out. The criticism of letting out the fire has also put him on edge. Ralph goes to Piggy for leadership advice, and Piggy obliges. Simon sees the true nature of the beast, a projection of the evil within each child created to fill the void of the unknown, so he cannot go with the hunters and he sees Ralph as one of the only children who does not play at the mention of hunting, so he realizes that they can be a group. Though still, he is a bit distanced from Piggy and Ralph.
Once, one of my friends and I had a "falling out" because this friend revealed a mental instability, on top of a plan to physically harm people. So I had to tell school officials, and we have not spoken since. Still, I can't perfectly relate to ever changing alliances.

alexf said...

I think that in chapters 4-6 there are many examples of successful and unsuccessful relationships between the characters. I think that at the beginning of the book, Ralph, Simon, and Jack were all best of friends, but then as chapter 4, 5, and 6 approach, there is much more tension. I think that because both Jack and Ralph are leaders, they will always be very competitive towards one another and therefore, will have an inconsistent relationship. Although he may not chose to be, I think that Piggy is stuck in the middle of it all. If Ralph and Jack are friends, Piggy is shunned, whereas is Ralph and Jack are fighting, Piggy is friends with Ralph only.
I am actually currently in a situation where our friendship is falling apart. Although we still enjoy the same things, we have both found new groups to hang out with and no longer spend time together.
I am having a difficult time connecting with the boys on the island because they act so randomly that a lot of the time, I get lost.

alyssas said...

In the last three chapters, some of the relationships between the characters have taken different twists than I expected. The biggest change in a relationship, in my opinion is the change between Jack and Ralph. I guess I kind of expected them to stick together as the leaders because of their first encounter at the meeting where Ralph was voted chief and Jack was named a hunter. But their relationship with each other has gone in the opposite direction because they have different priorities and ideas of how they should be running their new little society. It is also obvious that Jack is jealous of Ralph's position of power so he has kind of been doing things on his own (like when the hunters went off hunting the pig instead of keeping the signal fire going.) Occurrences like this are starting to push Jack and Ralph's relationship to the breaking point, not only as leaders but as acquaintances. Another relationship change that I have noticed is between Simon, Ralph, and Piggy. Their relationship has strengthened and they have grown closer over the last few chapters. They seem to be paying more attention to each other, respecting each other, and sticking up for each other more than any other group on the island. I believe that they are starting to grow closer because they have similar ideas on how the island should be run and how certain situations should be handled. I foresee their relationship only getting stronger the longer they are on the island.

I have had an instance with a friend fall apart before. It was a couple of years ago and I became very close friends with this girl, Sarah. We became really close during the school year and were virtually inseparable but once summer started we both became busy and didn't talk as much. Eventually we hadn't talked for like a month and I decided to have a big party with all of my friends from my new school. She found out about it and got really upset that I hadn't invited her and kept leaving nasty messages on my phone for months afterward. I never responded to her and that was pretty much the end of it. That was the only falling out that I have ever had with a friend so I can't totally relate to what they are going through. Even though I can't relate, I can still see what is going on between them and how things are starting to turn into a state of turmoil.

BrianC said...

In chapter 4, the boys are starting to get along and sort of dividing into groups. Then, Ralph sees a boat and the hunters let the fire go out so that drives Jack and Ralph apart. Then, in chapter 5, Ralph starts to think more and contemplate their predicament; this leads him to understand Piggie more so the relation between them grows.

An instance when a friendship fell apart for me was when I moved from Ohio, one of my friends and I kept in touch through E-mail for a year then just started to stop contacting each other. I can’t really connect to any relationships in the book because I haven’t really had any people separate from me because of things we did.

ashleyf said...

Its hard to see any actual valid friendship between anyone. the closest thing is probably Ralph and Jack, but only because they are the obvious leaders of the boys. but disagreement relly tears them apart. When Ralph wants everyone to man the fire adn build shelters, Jack is rounding up more people to go out hunting.
I think disagreement is a big part of why people's relationships fall through, yet it's not the only reason. Something that really messed with me and one of my friends was misscommunication. Someone told me she was the cause for soemthing i didnt like so i got mad and said things i shouldnt. we are friends now but that really effected it in the short run.
i dont really think i can relate that mcuh to the boys because boy relationships are mcuh different then ours.
You'd think because they all have a common enemy they would stick together, but it seems that it's thier own fear of the beast and of dying on the island is what's breaking apart relationships. And they all also have different goals. some want to be resuced while others just want to survive.

ZachH said...

I think the strongest relationship in the book is between Ralph and Piggy. Even from page one they have seemed to have mutual respect for each other.
I think that when people have a lot in common, it is hard to be friends.I had a friend once that I was a lot alike. We both were in GT classes in elementary school and both were very smart. We both wanted to be famous authors someday like Mark Twain or someone. But we often competed to see who was smarter or better at something. Eventually, we just decided not to really be friends anymore because we had too much in common.
The only real connection i can make so far is to another book i read. It was a bout a group of 6 kids who survive a shipwreak and wind up on an island. While some of them just want to have fun with no adults, the others realize that they need to fight for survival.

elisabethc said...

There are only a few different relationships that are occuring. Most of them occur between two people or a group of people. Ralph and Piggy have a certain type of relationship while Ralph and Jack have another. Ralph and Piggy's friendship is really unspoken. You know that it exists but there is not much to prove that it is really there. On the other hand the book does a lot of explaining about the relationship between Jack and Ralph. There are some times when they don't get along at all and they are worst enemies, but there are other times when they can share fun times together. The littleuns also have an important relationship becuase they are the same age and have the same fears, so they are able to confine in each other. The thing that is breaking all of the relationships down is probably the whole beast thing. Whenever they bring it up they get into a whole big argument about it every time. Another thing that is tearing the friendships down is the whole situation with the fire that has been going on. Ralph always wants the fire to be going while Jack only cares about hunting. That is where Jack and Ralph meet with a major difference.

I can't recall an exact relationship that I had with a friend that fell apart, but I do know of some situations that happen. Most of the time it happens when people go into Middle School or High School and each of the people hangs out with a different group or does things that the other friend wouldn't. This usually breaks friendships down a lot of times, becuase the friends can't agree with what they both want so eventually they make njew friends. Also another thing can be trust issues so fiends decide not to be friends anymore, kind of like what happened to chelseas. I do know how the boys feel though because I have had fights during friendships. In the end our friendship did not end but we built it back up instead. All friendships have their glitches no matter what, and now all fights in friendships end with the ending of that friendship.

DawnielleN said...
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DawnielleN said...
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DawnielleN said...
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DawnielleN said...

One of the more obvious relationships that are going on is between Jack and Ralph. I feel that every time they are together it is tense and I feel like something could happen between them any minute. Like most of the people have said in the blog, I think Ralph is slowly but surely improving as a leader. It is still hard for me to understand why everyone treats Piggy the way they do. Even Ralph who is supposed to be a leader treats Piggy terribly. Like MorganW said, Piggy and Ralph met each other first so they have been together for a while now. I consider that a building block. A relationship I have had with a friend that fell apart was simply due to change. I think in most friendships one friend grows up or changes and sometimes leaves the other in the dust. I think friends just drift apart sometimes. As far as Ralph kind of being ashamed of Piggy, (which is the impression I get) I don’t know if I have ever been ashamed of a friend but I can definitely grasp what is going on.

hannahl said...

I agree with dawniellen and everyone else that Ralph and Jack strike an obvious chord as far as big character relationships go. You could cut the tension with a knife. However, I think that an equally noticable, and far more eloquent relationship is between Ralph and Piggy. Ralph knows in his heart that Piggy is a good person and has great ideas on how to be saved. He also stays focused on rescue and doesn't get distracted. He gets treated the way he does because Ralph wants to make people think that Piggy's ideas are stupid so that Ralph can actually look like he came up with them when he didn't. I definately think that Ralph is starting to appreciated Piggy more now that he has had the traumatic experience with the fire. He realizes that he needs to stay away from Jack and the other boys. He is starting to focus on rescue again and is trying to really have control over his constituents.
As far as connecting a fall-out with a friend to my own life, I have had one freind in particular who reminds me of the fall-out between Jack and Ralph. I was really close freinds with her and we fed off each other constantly. However, she got some other freinds and I got jealous like a stupid-head and she kind of fell away. I made a big deal of it of course, which escalated the situation. I think that the fact that Jack got more connected with the hunting crowd on the island while he was still worrying about rescue, is very similar to my own situation. It stinks to have to watch a freind turn against you and not be able to do anything about it. But, as an acting teacher once told me, "I don't think people change, they just become more of themselves." And, in that case, it is a good thing that Ralph and Jack have fallen out.

amandah said...
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amandah said...

There are two major relationships taking place in the book, the relationship between Ralph and Jack and the relationship between Ralph and Piggy. The relationship between Ralph and Jack isn't a good one. They are always arguing and getting on each other’s nerves. The relationship between Ralph and Piggy is questionable. Ralph has known Piggy the longest and like dawniellen said this is the building block for their relationship. Ralph doesn't treat Piggy the best but he treats him better than some of the other kids. I think that Ralph is embarrassed that Ralph is his friend and that is what is breaking them apart. I've been friends with a lot of different people and I think we split apart because we changed or just grew distant and found new friends. I understand what’s going on, on the island but I don't know if I can quite connect.

Lukez said...

I think that there are a lot of relationships in the book change in these chapters. I mainly believe that the relationships between Ralph, Piggy, and Jack changed the most though. Ralph and Jack seem to have different ideas about what is most important on the island. Ralph wants shelter and Jack wants the best meat possible. This conflict of interests seems to be creating a rift between the two kids. Piggy and Ralph have a very weird relationship. Ralph seems to think that Piggy is weird and doesn't want to be with him because he's afraid of what the others will think about him. This makes it very uncomfortable when other kids are around Piggy and Ralph. The Relationship between Jack and Piggy hasn't changed so much as it has intensified. The feelings of dislike between the 2 have grown throughout the course of the book.

ryanm said...

The main relationships are Ralph and Piggy, Ralph and Jack, and Jack and Piggy. Ralph and Piggy's relationship started when they found each other on the island and called the other boys with the conch. their friendship is falling apart because Piggy thinks he has more authority than he actually does and Piggy is just plain annoying. Ralph and Jack's relationship started because they both held authority. their relationship is starting to break because of Jack's obseesion with the hunt. and Jack and Piggy's relationship is only in existance because of Ralph. their realtionship isnt a good one, and is falling apart because Jack hit Piggy and so on. There was a relationship with a friend that got all screwed up because someone thought something and one person changed and I kinda got angry and yeah. I can connect with the boys because sometimes i get angry and have to find a place to cool off at. but a couple times when i couldnt calm down.....it didnt end well.

MollyS said...

I think (and agree with everyone else who said so) that Jack and Ralph are now starting to have a better relationship. I think that once Jack caught the pig, it made Ralph feel like he wasn't the only one who was putting work into taking care of everyone. I think the building blocks of this relationship are all of the horrible and magnificent events that have occurred on the island, like losing the child and lighting the mountain on fire.
As a response to what chelseas said, all of the fighting you mentioned, in my opinion, led to the tension and breaking of ties between characters.
once a friend and I got into a big fight over a misunderstanding, but even though we both realized what had happened, it was like the fight had drained all of the want to be friends again right out of us. I can totally connect with what is happening on the island, the boys are breaking past their personalities that they put up when they just meet new people, and becoming who they truly are. This same thing happens when you become too close with someone, you see their darker sides and it can be shocking.

mitchl. said...

I think that some relationships in this book are very strong. For example, the hunters might feel a bond because their the one bringing the meat for the group, and the fact that they finally caught something has probably made that bond stronger.The thing that might break them apart might be a lack of killing animals for meat, or if someone gets all the kills or if someone doesn't contribute to the hunts at all. Back in elemaentary school, i was one of very few people that decided to go to Powell from my school, and a ton of my friends went to Newton and all those friendships were gone, but now they are all at arapahoe this year so were starting to become friends again.

mitchs said...

There are many examples of relationships between the characters in chapters 4-6. Jack and Ralph sort of have respect for each other. But, because Jack let the fire go out to go on the hunt, it has hurt their relationship, and now they are fighting over power, Jack is kind of trying to lead a rebellion for a little while, but then they go back to respecting each other. The relationship between Jack and Piggy is pretty much just hate. Jack hates Piggy and calls him fat all the time and Piggy is afraid of Jack and doesn't like him at all, especially because he punched his glasses out. Ralph and Piggys' relationship is much more complicated, Ralph stands up for Piggy sometimes, but sometime he beats Piggy down. He likes Piggy's thoughts sometimes, when they are good for what he wants. Ralph has also shown that he was the best choice for leader, because he is trying to get everyone to do their jobs and stands up for most people while Jack just wants to get what he needs for himself and not help the others. The big uns and little uns don't have much of a relationship, just that the big uns don't really care what happens to the little uns. The building block of these relationships is doing things that are productive together. When Jack and Ralph explored together, their relationship got better. Trust is also a building block of these relationships, but betrayal of trust can tear them apart. Ralph trusted Jack to keep the fire lit, and he didn't so their relationship has gone down hill. Also, just being on the island is breaking apart their relationships, the instinct for personal survival and not caring about what happens to others is starting to kick in.
A relationship with (then) friend of mine fell apart because of competition. We were on the same hockey team that year and we were both competing for the starting goalie job. I won it and because of that out friendship fell apart.
I actually can connect to what is happening to the boys on the island. What's happening to them happens to everyone-they're procrastinating. They planned to have all of this stuff done by a certain and it didn't happen because only a few people in the group helped. You could also relate this to any sports team that only has a few guys working hard and then they lose because of it.

beckyg said...

Piggy, Ralph, Simon, and occasionaly Jack seem to have formed an important bond. Piggy is now being more respected by the others which is good, and Ralph and Simon seem to listen to him and help him a lot more. Jack still seems a bit shady. Sometimes he can be really good and helpful, then other times he is of absolutely no use and actually leads some of the other kids astray. I think some of the building blocks of their relationships have been trust and respect. These have built a very strong relationship between Ralph, Piggy, Simon, and kind of Jack. What tears them apart is distrust, disrespect, and like chelseas says, fear. When they don't trust or respect each other, they won't believe the desisions the others make, and won't follow them. If each of them go their own way, it will jeapordize their friendships. Fear also destroys them, because if they are more afraid then trusting, then the same thing will happen. I had a really good friend in elementary school, but when we went to middle school, she went her own way. The friendship fell apart because she no longer wanted to be friends. I can't personally connect with what is happening, but I still understand it pretty well.

mattf said...

It appears to me that sides are starting to be taken in this book. Piggy, Ralph, and Simon appear to have joined together and stand up for one another. Jack appears to be fighting them and has his own group of friends. the building block of these relations started out as being stranded together and the need to survive, but now they seem to be values. Jack values hunting while Ralph values shelter, water, cleanliness, and a means for signaling rescuers. again, values seem to be breaking them apart because they don't agree with each other. I had a friend that moved away. This relationship fell apart because they no longer attended the same school as i did. I cannot personally relate to what is happening; however, I have seen things like this in other books and movies. I think they might start fighting and try to kill each other.

maddieh said...

I think that all the relationships that they have had built while they have been one the island, are just going to deteriorate because they don't have any time apart. Every one was thrust into this and I think that pretty soon they won't be thinking clearly and something bad will happen. I agree with most everyone because almost everyone thinks that Ralph is being a better leader by asserting himself, Jack is slowly becoming more primative and wild, and Ralph and Simon are closer. I personally think Piggy is the most consistently sensable so I don't see how the boys haven't noticed that until now. Recently, I have had a lot of friendships that have fell apart, which happens. A lot of the time, its just that you never see eachother and lose touch or someone changes and you don't like the person they became. So I totally relate with the boys on the island because being so close to eachother and being completely different makes it hard. I really think that the boys will get fed up and either form groups under different leaders or they will all break apart and go their own ways.

melissaz said...

I think, like most other people, I think Piggy and Ralph have the best relationship of all the boys. Although Ralph may not agknowledge his respect for Piggy (because no one else claims to like Piggy and he is kind of an outsider)he secrety inside does know that Piggy has important information and knows how to think and possiably save the boys. Ralph will every once-in-a-while do some little act to show how he doesn't totally disrespect him. And Piggy so desperatly wants to be a part of the group and not be a totally an outsider. But besides the connection between Piggy and Ralph, there is the general bond between the boys of each age group. The littluns and the biguns share a connection between eachother. The younger boys pretty much just stay with each other and keep other company and the big boys don't really have much to do with the littluns. Probably the connecting building block for the boy is that they are all in the same boat. They are both stranded on an island without any adults and they have to try and keep themselves alive along with everyone else so they can get rescued , hopefully. That is the building block but also the thing that is breaking them apart. They are trying to create a system to make their rescue as quick as possiable but they are running into differances in their ideas to make that happen. They need to ban together to survive but it is making their survival almost harder. One instance I can claim of a relationship falling apart is when we just stopped seeing each other regularly and didn't invite each other to our birthdays anymore and we just didn't have the same connection anymore like we did at one point. It wasn't a messy split, we just both realized that we didn't have much in common and it wasn't as fun. In a way I can connect with the boys but not totally. I can understand, because when I'm with the smae friend for more than 72 hours, I just get sick of seeing them and need some space. I'm sure most of the boys are tired of trying to make everyone happy and their reltionships to work and just want a break and want to go home.

Louiseb said...

I think that there are quit a few relationships in the book that change quite rapidly over the course of these few chapters. I think that the relationship that has changed the most though is the one between Piggy, Ralph, and Jack. Ralph and Jack have conflicting beliefs about what is best. It seems that Ralph is more concerned with getting off the island and Jack is more concerned with surviving on the island. This conflict is really tearing the two apart. Piggy and Ralph have an interesting relationship, it seems like Ralph is ashamed to be around Piggy because he thinks that others will look down on him. The Relationship between Jack and Piggy seems to have built as they have been on the island. They have come to dislike each other even more. I had a friend that I did everything with when I was younger, and then when school started, she started hanging out with a group of kids that completely changed her personality. When she was around me she was her old self but when one of the others came along she would be completely fake. The group she started hanging out with didn’t like me because I wasn’t willing to change myself into something I didn’t want to be. It was just like how the boys were changing so that they would be part of a group on the island. Eventually she became so different that we never talked anymore, and this is something that i could see happening to the boys in the near future.

kristinah said...

In the beginning I thought that ralph would be a good leader as far as it goes in chapters two and three but than I thought that once Jack came into the scene he would be more of the inforcer than the actual leader because he was more serious, ruff and tuff kind of thing where ralph was like let's get organized and figure out what to do next. So there was always a connection between Ralph and Jack because both of them were in a leadership possition. Then there is the relationship between Ralph and Piggy, in my oppinion Piggy treats ralph like an older brother and kind of looks up to him in that sort of light and supports him through his leadership. I agree with what another person said about the fact that Jack might symbolize the savage of the island becuase he always is like oh I will hunt this and kill this, destroy everything. Ralph represents the last shred of civilization on the island. Also piggy, reflecting back to chapter two or three seems to represent more of an adult sense telling the kids that they have been irresponsible and pointing out flaws that the boys are making.
The relationship between Ralph and the rest of the boys is beginning to develop in chapter three of a disrespect for the rest of the boys because they don't seem to be helping at all and ralph feels he is doing all of the work. The relationship between Jack and Ralph also starts to falter as they become angery with each other because Jack doesn't want to pay attention to the important things like building shelters or being rescued like Ralph does and all Jack wants to do is kill the pig. This builds up anger in both of them towards one another because neither one of the is understanding the others point of view. Also when Jack returns with the pig but doesn't care that the fire, the only effort that they had made to be rescued, went out, that makes Ralph even more frustrated with Jack. But then he also must feel a little relieved that some food has now been brought back and some effort is being made by someone other than himself. I would be angered by Jack if I was ralph also because all through chapters 4, 5, and 6 all Jack does is rebel against the rules to go do what ever he thinks is most important. What ever he wants to do. He also seems to disagree with everything that Ralph or Piggy wants to do. Sorry but my thoughts are kind of all over the place on this subject. Going back to Piggy I think that he may eventually develop a relationship with the little ones kind of like a motherly/fatherly figure taking care of them, cleaning them up, things like that. There was never a good relationship between piggy and jack and the relationship just totally ends when Jack hits piggy and breaks his glasses. And I don't know if anyone else noticed but Ralph seems to be turning away from Jack and more towards Piggy when he borrows piggies glasses to light the fire again. Piggy and Simon also have a quiet, friendly, relationship on the side. The main thing that seems to be breaking people apart is effort, leadership, and different points of view.

I had a friend named meagan who was my friend for like five years and it fell apart when she moved to Texas because we just never really made an effort to stay in touch. She just didn't seem like she wanted to be friends any more. Like she would never return my calls or anything like that so yeah.

I can connect personally with Ralph in the way that he feels like he is doing everything because I have felt like that many times when doing group projects and stuff like that in school.

aaronw said...

well, in chapter 4, the tension between jack and ralph gets higher, with jack failing to keep the signal fire going, but then cools down when he admits he was wrong. Chapter 5 shows their relationship as steady, with only a little bit of tension. yikes i sound like a maritial counselor!!! but anyways, chapter 6 shows that jack and ralph are getting better, mostly thanks to the expedition for the beastie. the word beastie reminds me of the second pirates of the carribbean movie... which was a kraken, not a dead parachutist.
The building block of these relationships is that they are all stuck on the island together and don't have a huge choice when it comes to making friends or enemies. so the island is a building block as much as it is a breaking point.
i had a friend, who went to powell while i went to newton. The rock in that place was that we went to different schools, and made different friends. i can't really connect to the boys extremely well.

nicolek said...

I think that over these last few chapters relationships have changed quite a lot. First, there is Piggy and Ralph who were first to meet and have always been somewhat friends. But whenever Jack or any of the others he acts like he is embaressed of Piggy and tends to make fun of him a lot more. It seems like this has happened a lot in relationships. Like in middle school a lot of people wouldn't talk to certain kids because they weren't in the same "group" but outside of school when no one was around they would be friends. Also, there is Ralph and Jack's relationship. I think that they care to much about different things and that is becoming a problem. Ralph cares a lot about getting rescued and making shelters and such but Jacks mainly cares about hunting and rules. Also, they both seem like they want to be the leader and they are both very competetive that that might cause a problem. I think that a lot of the relationship problems they are having on the island are very similar to reltionship problems people are going through now.

NickB said...

I think that the key people on the island's relationships are definitely changing. At the start of the book, it was one central unit, while now jack and his hunters are challenging Ralph's power. Jack seems to want power, and doesn't care whether that jeopardizes his relationship with Ralph and piggy.





~~~~ I'd also like to pose a new question, too.~~~~





Do you guys think it would be reasonable to take groups of 10-20 kids (around our age) and put them in a carefully watched area with no parents or anything like that for a week or so? I personally think it would teach me a ton about interaction and how to deal with other people.

Again, it would be carefully surveyed in case someone tried to kill someone, and probably would be either all boys or all girls so no one gets pregnant.

whitneys said...

There are many relationships in this book. The first one that comes to my mind is the relationship between Ralph and Piggy. They were the first boys each other met on the island; they found the conch together and blew it so all the boys on the island came together. This creates a special relationship between them. In addition, Piggy is the brains behind Ralph. Piggy was the one who knew that you could blow the conch and it would make a loud noise and initially caused Ralph to be Chief. Piggy also is loyal to Ralph and he takes Ralph’s side against Jack. This is partially due to the fact that Ralph’s mind works more like Piggy’s and Jack’s is completely opposite of his. Nothing seems to breaking Piggy and Ralph apart, in fact their relationship seems to be getting stronger. Especially after the incident with the fire and the ship, which causes Ralph to understand Piggy’s thinking and realizes how smart he actually is. Another relationship is Ralph and Jack. There relationship began in competition for chief. Jack thought that he would be the best chief and elected himself, but then the rest of boys wanted to vote on the chief. They chose Ralph over Jack because he was the one who blew the conch and brought them together, this made him seem powerful. After Ralph was made chief, he gave Jack the choir boys and made them the hunters. For awhile they seemed to be friends, but then Jack became too obsessed with hunting and killing pigs and also got jealous of Ralph’s power. The incident with the fire was what really broke them apart.

My best friend and I’s relationship completely collapsed when we started to both perform in shows and we became competition for each other. We always wanted the same parts and we beat each other A LOT! We were happy for the other when they got the part they wanted, but it was hard for the one who got the smaller role and they were usually upset. Thus, the person who received the coveted role felt as though the other person was mad at them. This is almost similar to Ralph and Jack’s relationship. Competition friendships are very common between friends, because they are usually involved in the same activities.

whitneys said...

Nickb~I think that would be really interesting, but almost impossible unless the kid's didn't know that the parents were watching them from some where. hahaha I like how you said so no one would get pregnant, because I am sure that if you put a group of co-ed kids on a island all alone...that would mostly likely happen.

alexd said...

I think that Ralph and Jack have a very rocky relationship. They don’t seem to get along very well and they are causing many issues for their relationship but the other boys seem to be dividing into groups and are still getting along at least somewhat civilly. The fight because they both want control over the group but they both cant have it. Because Jack did not keep the fire going like Ralph asked him to do.

I have had many relationships that have fallen apart. Many of them have happened because of clashing personalities like Jack and Ralph. It seems like when they fall apart they are every hard to mend and to bring back together. If someone cannot accept you for who you are then they are not worth being your friend. I hope that Jack and Ralph realize this eventually. I can definitely connect to what is happening to the boys on the island. They are going through many problems that I have had to go through in the past.

clarao said...

With everyone being so competititve to each other, it's only going to be harder to keep good relationships. Everyone is trying to prove themselves, and the relationship between Ralph and Jack that was starting to form is going to fall apart soon if they keep challenging each other. Whenever I have had relationships that fall apart it's usually because we never agree.

jhall said...

Well, to start things off, these three chapters got off quick. There were hardly any introductions or long dialogue. All the dialogue was short and child-like. The description of what was happening was very little because the characters told the story.
As for relationships, Ralph and Jack dislike Ralph from the start. Piggy has always been the weakest link. In chapter 5 we see how Jack responds to anger- he punched Piggy square in the face. You'd want to stay on Jack's side. But on the other hand, Ralph is the one person Jack won't do that to. He has verbal attacks on Ralph, but nothing physical. So, Piggy is using Ralph for rotection. Ralph and Jack and his hunters' friendship is deteriorating after the fire went out and a ship passed the island. On top of all this, there is an unknown "beast" (which is just a parachute from a dead parachuter who fell in battle)that haunts everyone and makes things VERY tense.
Tos um things up, the relationships are more defined, and the rivalries intense. The factor of the unknown-the beast is making things more tense than usual. Anything could happen.

kristenw said...

There are many different relationship issues going on in these three chapters. One relationship that changes alot is the relation between Ralph and Jack. In these chapters you see them grow apart because Ralph was mad at him for not doing his job. but once they go on the search for the beast they regain trust and liking for each other. I know one time I had a friend and she was my best friend, but now were not friends anymore. I think the reason we fell apart was because we both started hanging out with different people. I can personally connect to what is happening to the boys on the island because I know what it's like to feel like your doing all the work and someelse is not doing what they're supposed to be doing.
I think the idea that Nick B. came up with was very interesting. I do think that would be a very interesting thing to see and study. You would definatley learn a bunch about interaction with other people. Although I do think it would be interesting to do the same thing with both males and females (if they weren't allowed to have sex that is), it be interesting to see the kind of relationships that would form and everything.

SerenaL said...

Piggy and Ralph have a really strange relationship. Piggy kind of knows he is an outcast, but still thinks that Ralph is an "aquaintance" and Ralph doesn't really like Piggy but he knows that Piggy is smart and listens to him. I think there relationshp is built from the fact that they were there from the beginning and were the first people to take leadership. But they fight alot and Ralph doesn't lead the group how Piggy wants it to be lead.

A few years ago, me and one of my first best friends relationship kind of fell apart. I had met her when I was about 4 and we had a lot in common. For a four year old, this could mean we both like blue and macaroni and cheese, but we were really close for about 6 years. We're still friends but it just "isn't the same anymore." In 7th grade, she found a new best friend and kind of left me in the dust. I think this has happened to almost everybody.

I connect to the book similarly (ww?) to maddie f. My friend and I are still connected by a thread but we took different paths.

nilec said...

Examples of relationships are Ralph and Jack, Ralph and Piggy, and the Twins Sam and Eric.Ralph and Jack seem to fight over leadership constantly and dont always get along. And sometimes it seems like they want to be kind to each other but can't find a way. Ralph and Piggy have a strange relationship. i figured they would be best friends since they met first but Ralph is pretty mean to Pggy. At the same time he is the only one that sticks up for Piggy. Sam and Eric have a close relationship and are thought of as one person. the Fear of a beast and the struggle for orginization is what i think is breaking up relationsships. A situation were a relationship between a friend and i fell apart is when we hung out to much and got sick of being around one another. i definetly think this has to do with the relationships in the book so i can relate to what they are going through.

Liap said...

You can tell that jack feels threatened by Ralph, and that he has something against Piggy. I think Jack thinks that Piggy is also a threat because he knows how smart he is. I am also see that Ralph is beginning to respect Piggy for his intelligence, and because he is the only other one trying to make the rules work. Piggy seems to be very afraid of Jack, and thinks that Ralph is the only thing protecting him. I think that Ralph is a little shocked because Jack has turned into such a vicious hunter. I remember that I had a friend who was very controlling, and after a while I just couldn’t take it anymore, so I just told her to lay off. When she didn’t I just stopped talking to her. Jack reminds me a little bit of her, because he is so self-centered, and he would love to have control over everybody. It is my personal opinion is that Jack is the “beast” and will eventually start to kill people.

Selenam said...

This island is kind of like the island of Midway, it's a naval base but only 13 people live on it so that may be kind of tiring living with so few people, especially if you don't like the people you're living with.
I agree with liap that Jack will start killing people before too long. I know for certain what the "Beast" is because I have read this before.
In these chapters the dark seems to play a big part. What does the dark represent?

catem said...

So far in the book I have noticed many relationships between the boys. One of the main ones that I have noticed is the relationship between Ralph and Jack. Jack really wants to be leader, yet the fact that Ralph is the leader and not Jack; really upsets Jack. Although Jack ad Ralph dislike each other, maybe even hate each other, there is a little bit of mutual respect for each other.Ralph realizes that Jack has a couple of good ideas like for instance having to get meet on the island, and Jack is way more timid than he would have been if Ralph weren't there.

Another realationship that I have noticed is that between the Ralph, Piggy, and Simon. They kind of remind me of allies in a war, but in this case they are fighting evil, not other human beings, or at least not yet. They always support each other and normally listen to each other's ideas. Piggy is like the brains of the operation, Simon is like the reality check, and Ralph is the one that gets things done.

In response to your question, Selenam I think that the dark is representing the evil closing in on the island.

Those are some of the realationships that I have noticed in the book up to chapter 6.