Wow... nobody's commented yet?? I got home early from dance, so I guess I'm the first!
I don't believe the brotherhood exists, or Emmanuel Goldstein. I find it hard to believe that the party would talk about a rebel, an obvious way to make rebels find a leader, if he weren't just a fake way for the thought police to capture people like Julia and Winston who will easily latch on to an organized rebellion. I find it sad, but true, that in this society there is no way to organize a rebellion. Rebellion is simply a personal, intellectual, sane thing that has nothing to do with sex in the forest or renting a Prole's antique shop room. Instead, to rebel in this society, you would be a thinker, a dreamer, and a believer who does pretend to blindly follow but remains sane and human inside. Most likely, you would still get caught, but hey at least you lived your life. Depressing book, eh?
I do think this has to do with society today and when Orwell wrote the book because, to an extent, rebellion is really never possible. The person to stage a coup de ta (SP?) of a government will just set up another government which will be overthrown for another coup de ta and another new government and so on forever. Truly, the only way this would change would be if an atomic war killed everyone but a few marxists who made a real communal way of living and spread it to future generations, though someone would rebel eventually, goodness, I am depressing myself and whomever is reading! Talk about dystopia, challenging the system can only go so far! Really, powerful people just want us to think we can rebel (democracy with a two-party system). For instance, if the Republicans hold congress, the liberals will think they are rebelling with protests and voting. But is that really rebellion if a whole party is doing it?
I think the brotherhood withholds information because if the individuals that were given the information were caught, they could be forced to tell it. This can be done throuh torture, which I am sure Big Brother is not above. It would be too risky to give the information to someone who could easily be forced to talk.
If the brotherhood took over, I don't think much would change. I think that the brotherhood might just run the same government with the same figurehead, Big Brother, and just have different party leaders that the people do not know about.
I agree with both Hannahl and Mattf. I also do not believe that the brotherhood exists, I believe that it is simply what people call themselves part of when they start to actually "rebel" against the party. I really think that the whole population actually does occationally think about rebelling against the party but just do not want to be taken away and tortured. I was surprised about the number of people that were taken into the jail. I thought that there wasn't that many people that commited "thoughtcrime." I also think that the brotherhood was invented by the govenment just as the war was.
If I thought that the Brotherhood did exist, I think that it withholds info. from its members because when your body has been tortured so much and you are basically unconscience and willing to do anything to stop the pain. All of the information would be given away. I do not think that it would be any different if the brotherhood took over because they made their members commit to doing anything for the party, even kill little children. I would control your actions and thoughts just like the government that is rulling right now.
I agree with Matt and Hannah. I think that if there was an actual brotherhood, that they would withohold information if someone got caught, they could only tell limited information. That way the entire brotherhood could ever be discovered. I also think that if the brotherhood did take over, that nothing would change, because like Hannah, I don't think that they exist. I think that he brotherhood is a creative way to get rid of rebelious souls. If someone, such as Winston, was feeling as though his/her life wasn't good enough, then the brotherhood would seem like the perfect solution to their problems. If the government noticed that someone was acting strangly, all they would have to do is pose as a person from the brotherhood, and then they have perfect evidence that the person is against the party (although they don't really need evidence). So pretty much I think that the government made the brotherhood up, so if the "brotherhood" took over it would just be the party taking over. Even if there was such a person as Emmanuel Goldstein, if he was brave enough to start a rebelion, the party would kill them off right a way, making them tell names one by one.
I think that the Brotherhood withholds its information from its members, so that if a member gets caught (which it sounds like they most likely will), when they are tortured, they will have less information to give away. This will then allow the Brotherhood to carry on longer. By the lack of knowledge, it makes the Brotherhood stronger (ignorance is strength). If the Brotherhood took over, I would think they would still be similar to what the Party had been. I think that the society would be run by a strong leader, with an “inner party” working for them, and then I think there would be everyone else. I think the Brotherhood would keep a lot of information from its people, and be very suspicious. However, if the Brotherhood did take over, I do not think that there would be telescreens, and the people would have more freedom and a better sense of privacy.
If the brotherhood exists, I would say they withold information because they don't want poeple rebelling too fast, and they don't want people to lose their heads. I think it is pretty fishy for them not to tell people more than what they're telling them. If the Brotherhood took over I believe it would be some sort of anarchy. I think that people would just have to live for themselves.
I Definitely think the brotherhood exists. There is a quote lauren got from a movie, and I read it--and it is incredibly deep. I can't remember it, and I don't want to ruin it by paraphrasing, so I just hope lauren sees THIS and puts it on. I agree with maddison, in that if a brotherhood member is captured, they could give away valuable info. I think the brotherhood would totally fail as a government, because they are a rebel organization, and they would end up being rebels without a cause.
Well, like some others, I don't believe the Brotherhood exists. But, if there was, I think they would withhold information from their members because if one of the members was caught, they could honestly say that they didn't know who else was in the Brotherhood, or what the plan of action was (well, besides getting rid of Big Brother). You know, quite honestly, I don't know what would happen if the Brotherhood took over. It would definitely be a different lifestyle for one, and, well, the Brotherhood would be ruling, so it would kind of be what it is like under Big Brother. The people wouldn't really have a say, unless the Brotherhood is for capitalism or something like that. :)
I think the Brotherhood witholds information from its members to prevent ruining the entire system. It could be possible for a spy from the Party (it's highly unlikely though) to get into the Brotherhood and if they were to give that person the whole plan right down to the members, then they'd basically be ruined. Also, if an individual was caught and tortured into telling, they can't give away enough information. It's basically a security system.
But if we want to get into conspiracy theories here... then maybe the Brotherhood doesn't give out all the information because it doesn't really exsist and is just a huge cover by the Party to track down and get rebellious citizens. I personally don't think thats true but you never know with this book.
If the Brotherhood took over, I think that it would just be the same as if the Party were ruling. There is still some system with all the power, there is still a group who will disagree with the government, and there will still be the 3 classes. Also, people can be corrupted easily. Who says that Goldstein won't abuse that power and kill/torture/maim every person against him? Who says he won't monitor public opinion to make sure he can stay in power? With a book like this, there is really no good, happy ending. People are basically darned if they do, darned if they don't. Sorry to sound so pessimistic but I think thats kind of the point of the book.
Personally, I think that the brotherhood withholds information from its members because, obviously, in the torture chambers they would discover all their hidden secrets. Also, another possibility is that they don’t give much information because the brotherhood doesn’t exist. As Julia said, the Party could just be making up the brotherhood to give the society something to hate. What if the society just made up the brotherhood to give citizens false hope?!?! That could also be another possibility. It did, however, strike me odd that Winston and Julia knew so little about the actual Brotherhood and that they had to put all their trust in O’Brien.
If the Brotherhood did take over, I think that it would work for a while and then fail. I don’t exactly know why I think this, but a lot of “The Book” explained how a free and happy society could never exist in that world. I think that because there is always war and because there are only two other nations, the Brotherhood wouldn’t exist. Finally, the brotherhood isn’t that much better than the Party. They are quite sadistic and narrow-minded.
The brotherhood obviously withheld information from its members to uphold their own safety. They needed protection so that when people were caught they couldn't reveal to much information about the brotherhood. If the brotherhood took over, it would be a better run government, possibly a democracy. It would be what Winston and Julia have wanted all this time and possibly similar to our government today.
If the brotherhood exists, then it probably withholds information from it's members, so if someone is caught, then they can't give too much away and destroy the brotherhood. If the brotherhood took over, they might restore capitalists and their top hats, or they might just act like big brother, albeit with a different name. It seems like they are a Big Brother-esque type of society.
The Brotherhood holds information from its members due to the fact that it not only knows how many members there are but as to protect it. Another reason I think the Brotherhood witholds information is because it is not trully organized or possibly inexistance. It may be claimed to exist by the Party but in actuallity may not exist at all. I think it would not change the society much if the Brotherhood took over it would simply shift the power from one group to another.
The brotherhood withholds information in case one of their "members" is caught and tortured. It is common knowledge that people tell whatever they can but if they don't know everything they cannot betray it.
If the brotherhood took over it wouldn't be any different from Big Brother. It would simply mean another change in the enemys.
I think the Brotherhood does not give its members much information because it does not really exist. It is just a made up organization to trap those who have desires to go against the party.
I see a lot of similarities between the Party and the Brotherhood. It seems as though they have the same beliefs. All the party members are willing to do anything in order to make sure the Party survives, they are willing to turn in their friends and family, torture people, give up their freedom, and even kill people. Similarly, O'Brien tells Winston and Julia that they have to be willing to do all those things in order to help the Brotherhood survive. So if the Brotherhood did take control, I think they would rule very similarly to the Party, because they are both hungry for power and willing to do anything for it.
The brotherhood probably with holds information from the party because they don't want the info floating around where Big Brother may get it.
Its hard to say what would happen if the brotherhood took over. We really don't know what they stand for (other than rebelling against big brother.) Without knowing what their politcal views are, we don't know if they would be a dictatorship, a communist society, or a democracy.
The brotherhood withold's information from its members so that if and when they get caught they won't be able to give away the entire brotherhood.
If the brotherhood came into power they would be taken over by the other two nations or the world would fall into ruin because it would have no economic support.
The less the Brotherhood knows, the less they can confess to Big Brother. But i don't really see how the Brotherhood is any more free than Big Brother. For both, members do not know the inner workings of it all, they have to obey strict rules, and obviously the Brotherhood's revolt isn't doing anything, otherwise Big Brother would have already been taken over.
I think in the end, the Brotherhood would just be a new Big Brother. True freedom isn't an option in any way in this society.
The brotherhood proably doesn't want it's members knowing anything because the more they know then the more they can think about it and possibly develop opinions.
The brotherhood would probably not be very different from the way things are now.
I don't think the Brotherhood actually exists, so that is one reason that the Brotherhood witholds information from its members. I think the Brotherhood is just a trap set up by the high-ranking inner party members to help root out thought criminals. However, if the Brotherhood did exist, there would still be a number of reasons not to provide its members with information. They could withold information to make sure that new members don't accidentally give away important info to enemy spies. They could also withold information to prevent Party spies from entering into the Brotherhood and learning their plans. Another reason to withold information is that when the members are eventually captured, they don't them to be able to give away anything important when they are tortured.
21 comments:
Wow... nobody's commented yet?? I got home early from dance, so I guess I'm the first!
I don't believe the brotherhood exists, or Emmanuel Goldstein. I find it hard to believe that the party would talk about a rebel, an obvious way to make rebels find a leader, if he weren't just a fake way for the thought police to capture people like Julia and Winston who will easily latch on to an organized rebellion. I find it sad, but true, that in this society there is no way to organize a rebellion. Rebellion is simply a personal, intellectual, sane thing that has nothing to do with sex in the forest or renting a Prole's antique shop room. Instead, to rebel in this society, you would be a thinker, a dreamer, and a believer who does pretend to blindly follow but remains sane and human inside. Most likely, you would still get caught, but hey at least you lived your life. Depressing book, eh?
I do think this has to do with society today and when Orwell wrote the book because, to an extent, rebellion is really never possible. The person to stage a coup de ta (SP?) of a government will just set up another government which will be overthrown for another coup de ta and another new government and so on forever. Truly, the only way this would change would be if an atomic war killed everyone but a few marxists who made a real communal way of living and spread it to future generations, though someone would rebel eventually, goodness, I am depressing myself and whomever is reading! Talk about dystopia, challenging the system can only go so far! Really, powerful people just want us to think we can rebel (democracy with a two-party system). For instance, if the Republicans hold congress, the liberals will think they are rebelling with protests and voting. But is that really rebellion if a whole party is doing it?
I think the brotherhood withholds information because if the individuals that were given the information were caught, they could be forced to tell it. This can be done throuh torture, which I am sure Big Brother is not above. It would be too risky to give the information to someone who could easily be forced to talk.
If the brotherhood took over, I don't think much would change. I think that the brotherhood might just run the same government with the same figurehead, Big Brother, and just have different party leaders that the people do not know about.
I agree with both Hannahl and Mattf. I also do not believe that the brotherhood exists, I believe that it is simply what people call themselves part of when they start to actually "rebel" against the party. I really think that the whole population actually does occationally think about rebelling against the party but just do not want to be taken away and tortured. I was surprised about the number of people that were taken into the jail. I thought that there wasn't that many people that commited "thoughtcrime." I also think that the brotherhood was invented by the govenment just as the war was.
If I thought that the Brotherhood did exist, I think that it withholds info. from its members because when your body has been tortured so much and you are basically unconscience and willing to do anything to stop the pain. All of the information would be given away.
I do not think that it would be any different if the brotherhood took over because they made their members commit to doing anything for the party, even kill little children. I would control your actions and thoughts just like the government that is rulling right now.
I agree with Matt and Hannah. I think that if there was an actual brotherhood, that they would withohold information if someone got caught, they could only tell limited information. That way the entire brotherhood could ever be discovered. I also think that if the brotherhood did take over, that nothing would change, because like Hannah, I don't think that they exist. I think that he brotherhood is a creative way to get rid of rebelious souls. If someone, such as Winston, was feeling as though his/her life wasn't good enough, then the brotherhood would seem like the perfect solution to their problems. If the government noticed that someone was acting strangly, all they would have to do is pose as a person from the brotherhood, and then they have perfect evidence that the person is against the party (although they don't really need evidence). So pretty much I think that the government made the brotherhood up, so if the "brotherhood" took over it would just be the party taking over. Even if there was such a person as Emmanuel Goldstein, if he was brave enough to start a rebelion, the party would kill them off right a way, making them tell names one by one.
I also agree with Kristina, her post wasn't up when I started typing. :)
I think that the Brotherhood withholds its information from its members, so that if a member gets caught (which it sounds like they most likely will), when they are tortured, they will have less information to give away. This will then allow the Brotherhood to carry on longer. By the lack of knowledge, it makes the Brotherhood stronger (ignorance is strength).
If the Brotherhood took over, I would think they would still be similar to what the Party had been. I think that the society would be run by a strong leader, with an “inner party” working for them, and then I think there would be everyone else. I think the Brotherhood would keep a lot of information from its people, and be very suspicious. However, if the Brotherhood did take over, I do not think that there would be telescreens, and the people would have more freedom and a better sense of privacy.
If the brotherhood exists, I would say they withold information because they don't want poeple rebelling too fast, and they don't want people to lose their heads. I think it is pretty fishy for them not to tell people more than what they're telling them. If the Brotherhood took over I believe it would be some sort of anarchy. I think that people would just have to live for themselves.
I Definitely think the brotherhood exists.
There is a quote lauren got from a movie, and I read it--and it is incredibly deep. I can't remember it, and I don't want to ruin it by paraphrasing, so I just hope lauren sees THIS and puts it on.
I agree with maddison, in that if a brotherhood member is captured, they could give away valuable info.
I think the brotherhood would totally fail as a government, because they are a rebel organization, and they would end up being rebels without a cause.
Well, like some others, I don't believe the Brotherhood exists. But, if there was, I think they would withhold information from their members because if one of the members was caught, they could honestly say that they didn't know who else was in the Brotherhood, or what the plan of action was (well, besides getting rid of Big Brother). You know, quite honestly, I don't know what would happen if the Brotherhood took over. It would definitely be a different lifestyle for one, and, well, the Brotherhood would be ruling, so it would kind of be what it is like under Big Brother. The people wouldn't really have a say, unless the Brotherhood is for capitalism or something like that. :)
I think the Brotherhood witholds information from its members to prevent ruining the entire system. It could be possible for a spy from the Party (it's highly unlikely though) to get into the Brotherhood and if they were to give that person the whole plan right down to the members, then they'd basically be ruined. Also, if an individual was caught and tortured into telling, they can't give away enough information. It's basically a security system.
But if we want to get into conspiracy theories here... then maybe the Brotherhood doesn't give out all the information because it doesn't really exsist and is just a huge cover by the Party to track down and get rebellious citizens. I personally don't think thats true but you never know with this book.
If the Brotherhood took over, I think that it would just be the same as if the Party were ruling. There is still some system with all the power, there is still a group who will disagree with the government, and there will still be the 3 classes. Also, people can be corrupted easily. Who says that Goldstein won't abuse that power and kill/torture/maim every person against him? Who says he won't monitor public opinion to make sure he can stay in power? With a book like this, there is really no good, happy ending. People are basically darned if they do, darned if they don't. Sorry to sound so pessimistic but I think thats kind of the point of the book.
Personally, I think that the brotherhood withholds information from its members because, obviously, in the torture chambers they would discover all their hidden secrets. Also, another possibility is that they don’t give much information because the brotherhood doesn’t exist. As Julia said, the Party could just be making up the brotherhood to give the society something to hate. What if the society just made up the brotherhood to give citizens false hope?!?! That could also be another possibility. It did, however, strike me odd that Winston and Julia knew so little about the actual Brotherhood and that they had to put all their trust in O’Brien.
If the Brotherhood did take over, I think that it would work for a while and then fail. I don’t exactly know why I think this, but a lot of “The Book” explained how a free and happy society could never exist in that world. I think that because there is always war and because there are only two other nations, the Brotherhood wouldn’t exist. Finally, the brotherhood isn’t that much better than the Party. They are quite sadistic and narrow-minded.
The brotherhood obviously withheld information from its members to uphold their own safety. They needed protection so that when people were caught they couldn't reveal to much information about the brotherhood. If the brotherhood took over, it would be a better run government, possibly a democracy. It would be what Winston and Julia have wanted all this time and possibly similar to our government today.
If the brotherhood exists, then it probably withholds information from it's members, so if someone is caught, then they can't give too much away and destroy the brotherhood. If the brotherhood took over, they might restore capitalists and their top hats, or they might just act like big brother, albeit with a different name. It seems like they are a Big Brother-esque type of society.
The Brotherhood holds information from its members due to the fact that it not only knows how many members there are but as to protect it. Another reason I think the Brotherhood witholds information is because it is not trully organized or possibly inexistance. It may be claimed to exist by the Party but in actuallity may not exist at all. I think it would not change the society much if the Brotherhood took over it would simply shift the power from one group to another.
The brotherhood withholds information in case one of their "members" is caught and tortured. It is common knowledge that people tell whatever they can but if they don't know everything they cannot betray it.
If the brotherhood took over it wouldn't be any different from Big Brother. It would simply mean another change in the enemys.
I think the Brotherhood does not give its members much information because it does not really exist. It is just a made up organization to trap those who have desires to go against the party.
I see a lot of similarities between the Party and the Brotherhood. It seems as though they have the same beliefs. All the party members are willing to do anything in order to make sure the Party survives, they are willing to turn in their friends and family, torture people, give up their freedom, and even kill people. Similarly, O'Brien tells Winston and Julia that they have to be willing to do all those things in order to help the Brotherhood survive. So if the Brotherhood did take control, I think they would rule very similarly to the Party, because they are both hungry for power and willing to do anything for it.
The brotherhood probably with holds information from the party because they don't want the info floating around where Big Brother may get it.
Its hard to say what would happen if the brotherhood took over. We really don't know what they stand for (other than rebelling against big brother.) Without knowing what their politcal views are, we don't know if they would be a dictatorship, a communist society, or a democracy.
The brotherhood withold's information from its members so that if and when they get caught they won't be able to give away the entire brotherhood.
If the brotherhood came into power they would be taken over by the other two nations or the world would fall into ruin because it would have no economic support.
The less the Brotherhood knows, the less they can confess to Big Brother. But i don't really see how the Brotherhood is any more free than Big Brother. For both, members do not know the inner workings of it all, they have to obey strict rules, and obviously the Brotherhood's revolt isn't doing anything, otherwise Big Brother would have already been taken over.
I think in the end, the Brotherhood would just be a new Big Brother. True freedom isn't an option in any way in this society.
The brotherhood proably doesn't want it's members knowing anything because the more they know then the more they can think about it and possibly develop opinions.
The brotherhood would probably not be very different from the way things are now.
I don't think the Brotherhood actually exists, so that is one reason that the Brotherhood witholds information from its members. I think the Brotherhood is just a trap set up by the high-ranking inner party members to help root out thought criminals.
However, if the Brotherhood did exist, there would still be a number of reasons not to provide its members with information. They could withold information to make sure that new members don't accidentally give away important info to enemy spies. They could also withold information to prevent Party spies from entering into the Brotherhood and learning their plans. Another reason to withold information is that when the members are eventually captured, they don't them to be able to give away anything important when they are tortured.
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