I think that the people's memories weren't erased because if they remembered too much, the government could simply vaporize them. Also, they had the fact that there wasn't really a world before Big Brother's reign drummed into their heads, so they weren't really allowed to think otherwise or the Thought Police would arrest them.
I think that the government doesn't want them to remember what life was like before. They erased all of the people's memories so that they couldn't remember that life was better and that their minds and thoughts are now being poisoned. The gov. is trying to conform them to the ways that they want.
I think no one remembers because they have been brainwashed so much by being told that B.B. is a god so that people just believe whetever he says. An example is in Section 5 when, earlier in the book the ration of chocolate went down from 30 grams to 20 grams. But in this part, an anouncer on the telescreen tells everyone to be gratefull to B.B. for raising the amout of chocolate they get from last week, And everyone believs him.
I think that the government does not want the people to remember the past, just like Fahrenheit 451, and that they don't want people to be able to think for themselves. Like Liz said, the government wants to conform people.
There are alot of ways that 1984 and F451 are connected. They are both have people who are "brainwashed" and the "same". And in both books the main character wants to challenge the system
Could there also be a similarity in the Patriot Act? IN the US there is phone taping, which is an invasion of privacy. And in 1984 the TV serves as a window for the government to look through.
About turing in parents, ...this is similar to WWII, where children would turn their parents into the Nazis. Many times, the parents would be taken away, because of their children.
Yeah there are a lot of ways. Violence, bad government, telescreen type things, violent children, how no one is allowed to question the way things are...I'd say that's the biggest one. Everyone is expected to just exist and not think and not question. Intelligent people aren't liked and aren't accepted because they might start to question the government and potentially start an uprising. There are a lot of similarities!
Fahrenheit 451 and 1984 have a lot of similarities with one another. Both governments are controlling and force conformity on the people. Both main characters are interested in challenging the system, and both novels warn us about what the future could be like.
I think that the fact that the kids may have more authority than the adults could be really scary. That fact could mean that kids take over and run the world, at this point in time I would never trust the worlds economics and mechanics to be run by a group of 14 year olds.
I was thinking that this book is like Fahrenheit 451, where the country is always at war. And the community is controlled by the leader. No books and no privacy. They people could be reported instantly.
As scary as the adults are in Oceania, I think that the kids will be even worse as they mature. Winston even said that if his neighbors son would have been a little older than he would fear for his life. If I were the parent of that child i would be afraid because my child is so differnet than I was in my childhood. The children are like a whole new breed of human.
caitlina- That's exactly what I was thinking! The government can tap into our private phone calls and get into our personal life.. It's basically the same thing in 1984 just to more of an extreme I think.
Chelseas, we learned about that in history this year. If children heard their parents saying something or doing something that was anti-Hitler or anti-Nazi, then they could turn them in. That was the whole aim of Hitler Youth. Children are malleable, so if you could "educate" them and shape their thinking, and even get them to the point where they'll turn their own parents in, then that's when you can really take over. Big Brother is actually a lot like Hitler.
I think Winston is writing in the diary because he doesn't want to forget his memories and he kind of wants to leave it behind for future people because he knows that the reign of big brother won't last forever.
I think that Winston uses his diary to vent as well as to let out his emotions so that no one will see his true feelings, and turn him into the authorities.
Everyone is talking about 1984 as a tool to show that our society can become this corrupt and that we can be taken over by ouor government. I think that our society now could never get to that point because it seems like you would have to be pretty easily manipulated by your government to be afraid to speak what you want and do what you want.
If i ever had a child in that society, I'd try to keep them hidden and secret and teach them myself. I'd honestly rather be a Prole and be "free" rather then be a member of the Party and be consantly watched and exploited.
I think that Wilson is writing because he feels a need to pour his thoughts into something else. Since he doesn't have a friend he could be trusting the book to hold all of his secrets.
with what pheobe was saying, its kind of like the movie V for Vendetta because when this women knew she had nothing left and was probably going to be killed she wrote down her story so that she could feel like she wasn't alone and that there was someone listening
Brian- It's easy for you to say that now, but if you were taught that it was wrong and had been brainwashed since birth, could you honestly say that you would think to do that?
Serena and Caitlin made some interestin points which is kind of crazy to think about how easy it couold be for the government to do so. How the police and the FBI tap into phone calls and listen in and locate phone calls when trying to catch a master criminal, the government can just as easily tap in and listen to our everyday private phone conversations which should scare us. Now that I look back on my previous comment I have a different outlook on the situation, I don't think that society cna be changed by man itself physically without a rebellion, but with man made macinery and advanced technology that can't be beaten I think that is the only way our society could be corrupted so viciously.
alyssas---Yeah, I do. It was written in 1949, 4 years after WWII ended, so the memory was still fresh. And also the fact that the government is glorified and the media acts like everything is wonderful connects to Nazi Germany too. And if you disagreed with the Nazis, you would disappear in the middle of the night. And of course the Hitler Youth. Also, no one is ever safe from the government; it is everywhere. So yes, I do think Nazi Germany and WWII definitely inspired Orwell in writing this.
I Think that the diary was Winston's proof that he had existed once. once he had died he could have been erased from history, and so his diary served as his evidence to others, so maybe those readers would start questioning the government.
nicolek- That is a really good point. It makes me wonder if the people writing down these stories write them partially because they know that one day they might eventually be found and read, or is it just for themselves?
another comment goign around in the conversational fishbowl is that the poeple were manipulated by what was happening around them because of the mass genocides that occured prior to there time it shows that there is a chance that one man, one dictator, would be able to take out an entire nation, which scares people and makes us give in more easily.
Caitlin- I agree. I also thinks it has to do with Winston's sunconciuos desire to be a part of something greater than himself. I think for him, that being a part of the Party isn't good enough because he is just normal. I think he has that underlying desire to be with Goldstein and challenge the Party.
caitlina---A prole is someone who isn't a Party member. Later in the book it said that 15% of Oceania are Party members and 85% are proles. Proles are just the common people who aren't involved in politics or anything like that.
Catilina, a Prole is the lower class. There is the Party, what Winston is part of, and the Proles, 85% of the population who work in the factories and mines and things like that.
Caitlin-I had the same question-I think that it is one of the three parts of the city-the Inner CIty, the Outer City, and the Proles. I don't know, but I think this is what a Prole is.
caitlina: to answer your question on the proles, they are lesser humans that the government doesnt need to watch becasue they are not smart enough, and do not have enough resources to rebel.
Alyssa- Good point. I was also thinking that he has thoughts that Orwell has not really described yet, and he hasn't discovered. I think that this was his first step in challenging the system.
47 comments:
Also, if there is no record of the past, even if people remembered it wouldn't matter because they can't prove it
I think that the people's memories weren't erased because if they remembered too much, the government could simply vaporize them. Also, they had the fact that there wasn't really a world before Big Brother's reign drummed into their heads, so they weren't really allowed to think otherwise or the Thought Police would arrest them.
I think that the government doesn't want them to remember what life was like before. They erased all of the people's memories so that they couldn't remember that life was better and that their minds and thoughts are now being poisoned. The gov. is trying to conform them to the ways that they want.
Okay for the second question, SO MANY WAYS!! It will take forever to list all the similarityies!
Sorry I meant similarities
I think no one remembers because they have been brainwashed so much by being told that B.B. is a god so that people just believe whetever he says. An example is in Section 5 when, earlier in the book the ration of chocolate went down from 30 grams to 20 grams. But in this part, an anouncer on the telescreen tells everyone to be gratefull to B.B. for raising the amout of chocolate they get from last week, And everyone believs him.
I think that the government does not want the people to remember the past, just like Fahrenheit 451, and that they don't want people to be able to think for themselves. Like Liz said, the government wants to conform people.
There are alot of ways that 1984 and F451 are connected. They are both have people who are "brainwashed" and the "same". And in both books the main character wants to challenge the system
Could there also be a similarity in the Patriot Act?
IN the US there is phone taping, which is an invasion of privacy. And in 1984 the TV serves as a window for the government to look through.
About turing in parents, ...this is similar to WWII, where children would turn their parents into the Nazis. Many times, the parents would be taken away, because of their children.
Yeah there are a lot of ways. Violence, bad government, telescreen type things, violent children, how no one is allowed to question the way things are...I'd say that's the biggest one. Everyone is expected to just exist and not think and not question. Intelligent people aren't liked and aren't accepted because they might start to question the government and potentially start an uprising. There are a lot of similarities!
Fahrenheit 451 and 1984 have a lot of similarities with one another. Both governments are controlling and force conformity on the people. Both main characters are interested in challenging the system, and both novels warn us about what the future could be like.
I think that the fact that the kids may have more authority than the adults could be really scary. That fact could mean that kids take over and run the world, at this point in time I would never trust the worlds economics and mechanics to be run by a group of 14 year olds.
In both 451 and 1984 the government tries to control the information people are given. Also, both countries in the books are constantly at war.
I was thinking that this book is like Fahrenheit 451, where the country is always at war. And the community is controlled by the leader. No books and no privacy. They people could be reported instantly.
As scary as the adults are in Oceania, I think that the kids will be even worse as they mature. Winston even said that if his neighbors son would have been a little older than he would fear for his life. If I were the parent of that child i would be afraid because my child is so differnet than I was in my childhood. The children are like a whole new breed of human.
caitlina-
That's exactly what I was thinking! The government can tap into our private phone calls and get into our personal life.. It's basically the same thing in 1984 just to more of an extreme I think.
Chelseas, we learned about that in history this year. If children heard their parents saying something or doing something that was anti-Hitler or anti-Nazi, then they could turn them in. That was the whole aim of Hitler Youth. Children are malleable, so if you could "educate" them and shape their thinking, and even get them to the point where they'll turn their own parents in, then that's when you can really take over. Big Brother is actually a lot like Hitler.
Louise- I agree. I think that at a certain point things run by kids would fail, and the world as we know it woul end, like Lord of the Flies.
I think Winston is writing in the diary because he doesn't want to forget his memories and he kind of wants to leave it behind for future people because he knows that the reign of big brother won't last forever.
I think that Winston uses his diary to vent as well as to let out his emotions so that no one will see his true feelings, and turn him into the authorities.
Everyone is talking about 1984 as a tool to show that our society can become this corrupt and that we can be taken over by ouor government. I think that our society now could never get to that point because it seems like you would have to be pretty easily manipulated by your government to be afraid to speak what you want and do what you want.
I agree with what John is saying, that he is writing the diary as part of a small, secret rebellion, and, in a way, it liberates him.
Amy- That's a good connection. So do you think that Orwell used expierences from WWII to draw inspiration to write 1984?
Alex- I agree. If the kids are acting so horribly when they're young, just imagine what they'll be like when they're older.
If i ever had a child in that society, I'd try to keep them hidden and secret and teach them myself. I'd honestly rather be a Prole and be "free" rather then be a member of the Party and be consantly watched and exploited.
I think that Wilson is writing because he feels a need to pour his thoughts into something else. Since he doesn't have a friend he could be trusting the book to hold all of his secrets.
with what pheobe was saying, its kind of like the movie V for Vendetta because when this women knew she had nothing left and was probably going to be killed she wrote down her story so that she could feel like she wasn't alone and that there was someone listening
Brian- It's easy for you to say that now, but if you were taught that it was wrong and had been brainwashed since birth, could you honestly say that you would think to do that?
Serena and Caitlin made some interestin points which is kind of crazy to think about how easy it couold be for the government to do so. How the police and the FBI tap into phone calls and listen in and locate phone calls when trying to catch a master criminal, the government can just as easily tap in and listen to our everyday private phone conversations which should scare us. Now that I look back on my previous comment I have a different outlook on the situation, I don't think that society cna be changed by man itself physically without a rebellion, but with man made macinery and advanced technology that can't be beaten I think that is the only way our society could be corrupted so viciously.
Brian- But then that child would eventually be caught and killed most likely.
alyssas---Yeah, I do. It was written in 1949, 4 years after WWII ended, so the memory was still fresh. And also the fact that the government is glorified and the media acts like everything is wonderful connects to Nazi Germany too. And if you disagreed with the Nazis, you would disappear in the middle of the night. And of course the Hitler Youth. Also, no one is ever safe from the government; it is everywhere. So yes, I do think Nazi Germany and WWII definitely inspired Orwell in writing this.
I Think that the diary was Winston's proof that he had existed once. once he had died he could have been erased from history, and so his diary served as his evidence to others, so maybe those readers would start questioning the government.
alexd---If the child was a prole, then they wouldn't be caught and killed because the proles are "beneath suspicion."
What exactly was a prole? I was confused on this...
nicolek- That is a really good point. It makes me wonder if the people writing down these stories write them partially because they know that one day they might eventually be found and read, or is it just for themselves?
Liap, no, I probably wouldn't think that. But from where I stand now, I'd rather be a Prole that a Party member and I think most will agree with me.
another comment goign around in the conversational fishbowl is that the poeple were manipulated by what was happening around them because of the mass genocides that occured prior to there time it shows that there is a chance that one man, one dictator, would be able to take out an entire nation, which scares people and makes us give in more easily.
caitlina: but if winston is arrested it would be for having the diary, so wouldnt the diary be erased from history too?
Caitlin- I think it is a person who is kind of a rebel and goes under the radar.
Caitlin- I agree. I also thinks it has to do with Winston's sunconciuos desire to be a part of something greater than himself. I think for him, that being a part of the Party isn't good enough because he is just normal. I think he has that underlying desire to be with Goldstein and challenge the Party.
caitlina---A prole is someone who isn't a Party member. Later in the book it said that 15% of Oceania are Party members and 85% are proles. Proles are just the common people who aren't involved in politics or anything like that.
Catilina, a Prole is the lower class. There is the Party, what Winston is part of, and the Proles, 85% of the population who work in the factories and mines and things like that.
Caitlin-I had the same question-I think that it is one of the three parts of the city-the Inner CIty, the Outer City, and the Proles. I don't know, but I think this is what a Prole is.
phoebe-
It sort of made me think that he was writing the diary so that he knew that he him self existed, not so that others knew.
caitlina: to answer your question on the proles, they are lesser humans that the government doesnt need to watch becasue they are not smart enough, and do not have enough resources to rebel.
Alyssa- Good point. I was also thinking that he has thoughts that Orwell has not really described yet, and he hasn't discovered. I think that this was his first step in challenging the system.
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